jbl930

I'd forgotten about that thread, sorry you feel put out about the head material thing, facts are facts though, and i don't really tolerate argumentative people well. Turbo heads are made of stronger alloy, and i doubt very much Porsche used it for any other reason than it was 'needed'..... You continuing to dispute this did make you look silly, but that's your prerogative. And i said you are making yourself 'look like an idiot', i didn't directly call you an idiot 993 front brakes with 930 fronts on the rear also work very very well, i know because i use them, and have tested them extensively. I thought maybe you had some experience with the set up that you may share, i didn't realize you were just out looking for retribution. It's good to know C2 and C4 calipers are the same, i like learning new stuff, that's why i read forums. I guess i was hood winked again with regards to the brakes, not the first time with using 9M as you know. They work very well though so no foul really. I think if you go back and read you initial responses to my posts none of them are exactly friendly are they, they don't start with 'Hey Jon, not sure that's quite correct mate, i think you'll find.....' You tuck straight into your abrasive retort, i responded matter of fact about the heads Richard, and you wouldn't let it drop or admit you had the wrong info, your bad not mine chap!

I'm confused, i have no idea who you are, you may be a Porsche specialist that i haven't heard of? With that in mind, i mention that i'm repeating what i am told, and that the only experience i have is using the brakes at high speed, and they work great..... Then you accuse me of having attitude!? Do you have a bone to pick with me? Feel free to send me a PM if you would rather get something off your chest off the forums, or feel free to air it on here, pretty sure i have nothing to hide.

I'm not a spanner man, so only repeat what i am told by Porsche mechanics, and i was told (regardless of pad sizes), that the C4 caliper was different to the C2, did they just paint them different colours for fun? C2's are black and C4's silver..... Are they the same part number? I can assure you that the bias works well stopping from around 190mph repetitively, not sure what else to add...... Maybe you have more experience with this set up than me?

Thinking about it i'm being silly anyway, i only need a pair of front big reds to make a set, then i can sell my full set of 930's and sell the front 993 C4's to someone that wants to upgrade the 930 brakes like i did, whilst retaining the parts to put the 930's back at a later date. I will say though that a set of 993 C4 calipers up front are bloody awesome, and are as tight a fit as i've ever seen behind 16" wheels, AND use stock disks.... Not sure what you would use on the back? Maybe if you can get a full set of C4 calipers and make the rears work? There must be salvage yards with 993 C4's in all over the world

I run 993C4 calipers up front, and the 930 front calipers on the rear and it works very VERY well. I do VMax runs up to around 190mph regularly with only 0.4 miles to stop (all on a private runway), and the brakes are simply awesome! I went this direction when i had the 16" stock Fuchs as they were as big as you could go and still fit behind the front wheel. The C4 fronts 'just' fit, and the brake pad size is only marginally smaller than a big red one. You have to take the center sections out of the 930 fronts calipers and fit them into the rear brackets, basically so you have the larger front pistons assemblies in the rear, and they fit with the stock disks. Also the 993C4 fronts just need a simple mounting bracket which you can buy online, and also work with the stock 930 front disks. I bought a set of rear big red calipers, and have been looking for a set of fronts as i now have Ruf 17" wheels, not because i need more stopping power, but just because i've always wanted to have a set of big reds fitted. I believe the rears have to have the lugs machined off and new mounting holes drilled and threaded to fit to a 930, my big red rears are still stock at the moment. I could be interested in doing a deal, what you would get from me is a full set of stock 930 calipers (the front brackets and rear piston assemblies are in a box, nothing has been modified, you would simply need to dismantle the rear calipers and return the front and rears to normal if you ever wanted just stock 930 brakes), and you would get a set of 993C4 fronts with the mounting bracket that simply bolt up in the stock 930 fitment and the use the stock disk.... My front disks are nearly new, the rears are not, but they are in usable shape. I'm not sure whether you have different disks with the big reds? I haven't gone that far into the research.... Are yours true 993 turbo big reds? I know some people call the 964 turbo calipers 'big reds'

I still have the torsion bars and front sway bar from my 87 930 for sale, i started a thread in the for sale section on here. None of the stuff listed in there has sold, apart from the gearbox... A few on here said they wanted some of the bits but nobody materialized, it's all still sat there

Didn't know the only CTR with the 5 speed was the original yellow bird, like to learn new stuff So what did they use the 5 speed on afterwards? The BTR? I know there are plenty of 5 speeds out there, nearly bought a couple over the years before i found my gearbox, but got beaten to them. The 5 speed is just a 930 box with an added 1st, and of course different ratios throughout.... I was under the impression the first G50 was installed in 87? And Ruf didn't deam it strong enough, so developed the 5 speed based on the stronger 930 box I was also under the impression that you had a choice of 5 or 6 speed on the CTR when it was in production, but always happy to learn....

The 930 torsion bar is straight, as the 4 speed box in the 930 is shorter than a G50, the G50 cars including the 89 930 have a kink in the torsion tube to give clearance. I went with the 89 930 G50 box, which meant i needed to modify the torsion tube, i didn't use a 993 box. I actually ran the 993 engine with the old 930 4 speed box for a while, but it wasn't ideal, and i managed to get my hands on a G50/50 so changed to that. There are some people using stock NA G50 boxes on higher HP cars, the Ultima cars being an example. I think for longevity you would need to strengthen it, you can buy all the bits to do this, so that should be an easy job. On a side note i'm surprised that Ruf don't sell a kit to convert the stock 930 4 speed to a 5 speed. They obviously have all of the moulds etc, it should be a straight forward job, and there would be a big market for it. If your 4 speed needed a rebuild anyway, as a lot will by now, then a lot of people would spend the extra and get 5 gears. They could do a choice of ratios to suit all..... Ruf obviously thought that was an easier approach back in 87 than strengthening the NA G50, I guess that's not the case now though?

I will ask the questions for you, i just know when my guys did the conversion they said over and again that it would have been much easier with a 964 shell.... Plus you have the benefit of power steering, ABS and better suspension. My car feels much better with coil overs than it did on torsion bars, but for the way i use it maybe the coil overs were over kill on the front? I had no choice on the back as i had to cut away the center of the torsion tube. I don't miss ABS but it would be a nice safety feature. I also don't miss power steering, but it would make slow maneuvering easier, none are necessary but worth considering IMO Your G50 shell may be easier than my 930 to get it in, as i mentioned i will ask my guys. If you do buy a 993 turbo engine, obviously get the loom, and also get the oil tank. You'll have to go with a turbo wing if you are using the 993 intercooler, but there is nothing stopping you fabbing up something like the production CTR's used, would be nice to see the 959 air intake in there . Stick with the stock MAF set up, and get one of the proper developed RS Tuning packages, they do them up to 493PS with stock cams, and 520PS with 3.8RS cams. The 474PS package is closer to the original CTR power, and uses smaller K16/24 turbos so you'll get less lag, so this may be enough? http://www.cargraphic.co.uk/index.php?/s,6...,713,1290,1052/ Richard, i think Porsche using high temp (hiduminium) alloy for stock turbo heads speaks for itself..... Not sure what your angle is?

Now you just look like an idiot

If it's only relevant to race motors why would Porsche use it on all of their stock turbos, and lesser alloy for the NA cars? If the car is going to be used properly, then for the high heat turbo engine you need the right heads, even more so if you are upping the power.... It's not my opinion Richard, it's a fact..... Not sure why you're struggling with it?

There are plenty of guys out in the states that have 'turbo'd their carrera', so if you're happy to go that route i don't doubt it'll be a lot easier than finding and fitting a 993 turbo engine in your IB..... I was under the impression you wanted a 993 turbo engine, and my point is it's a much easier job fitting the 993 turbo lump into a 964 shell..... And it would make a better and safer CTR copy in my opinion, i'm sure you could do something with the cill covers to backdate it. Protomotive in the states do turbo kits for the 3.2, i don't honestly know how good they are, i've never driven one, and people don't usually post horror stories online, but do some searching on Pelican and Rennlist and you'll find plenty to read. And yes, turbo heads are Rolls Royce 350 alloy, none turbo heads (at least up to the 964) are not, the turbo heads are stamped with RR350..... I know when i spoke to Richard Chamberlain about heads he said he would never use a none RR350 head in a turbo engine, as it would fail pretty quickly in a racing environment. If you are going to only do quick blasts in the car, even runs on airport runways etc you'd 'probably' be ok. But if you ever took the car down an autobahn, and held it at sustained high load.......

Above the bumpers it's pretty much all the same up to the 993 isn't it? But underneath the 964 is very different, power steering, proper suspension..... Nothing wrong with torsion bars, and i don't know what Ruf did with the yellow bird, but i'd rather have coil overs.... They modified the 4 speed box to create a 5 speed, so maybe they did stick with TB's? Yes the 993 turbo lump is expensive, and it's a bugger to fit in an IB car, lots of obstacles to overcome, that's why i mentioned the 964 shell, easy job then..... Getting a properly tuned 520hp engine, that is nice and drivable on the road, that has plenty of torque and delivers good MPG, and will run safely for 50k + miles, it's a 993 turbo motor with the RS package all the way as far as i'm concerned. You'll spend the same doing the single turbo 'properly'.... I have a mate with a 601bhp JUDD tuned single turbo motor for sale, that would be a good purchase, it's only been run in, and it'll cost half the price of the build on it. I'm not convinced about the 3.2 heads being up to the job, they are not RR350 alloy, and i'm told if used hard they won't hold up. I know there are guys out there running them though. They have better port sizes than the 930 heads.... But i'd want proper turbo heads on the engine to deal with the heat.

Yes, i'm the idiot....... If you want to do a CTR tribute type car, you'd be well advised to start with a narrow 964, 993 turbo engine bolts straight in, no issues with gearbox, ABS and coil overs a bonus...... Find one with no sunroof, shave the gutters, some copy Ruf bumpers etc..... Strip the interior, little mirrors, get the Ruf accents... gauges etc, fit the RS Tuning 520PS kit on the engine = Rocket ship (it was RS - Reinhold Schmirler - who developed the CTR engine for Ruf, so you can have an 'advanced CTR') I love the 930, so i stayed with that look. But if you want to make it look like a CTR, and you'll take it up to it's limits speed wise, best to just sell yours and find a light narrow 964. How far have you gone with your SC? Give us some pics, some more info

I have a spare set of 930 cams if anyone needs them, mint condition too