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Does anyone here own the Motor Show 930 ?


earlybay

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Assume you mean the guards red 75 car that Car magazine (among others) reviewed in Dec 74.

 

That was a pre-production car most likely with a vin in the 1-10 range and owned by porsche. Customer cars, that is cars with vin numbers starting at 11 didnt start production until Jan 75. Think this is the car that Paul Frere gave potential customers test rides in.

 

Be great if it turned up and worth a pretty penny too.

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Assume you mean the guards red 75 car that Car magazine (among others) reviewed in Dec 74.

 

That was a pre-production car most likely with a vin in the 1-10 range and owned by porsche. Customer cars, that is cars with vin numbers starting at 11 didnt start production until Jan 75. Think this is the car that Paul Frere gave potential customers test rides in.

 

Be great if it turned up and worth a pretty penny too.

 

Well its certainly listed on the DVLA here as having a current road tax, which means its out there somewhere .. not sure if I saw on another thread that someone on here was tracking it with a view to buying it ??

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Assume you mean the guards red 75 car that Car magazine (among others) reviewed in Dec 74.

 

That was a pre-production car most likely with a vin in the 1-10 range and owned by porsche. Customer cars, that is cars with vin numbers starting at 11 didnt start production until Jan 75. Think this is the car that Paul Frere gave potential customers test rides in.

 

Be great if it turned up and worth a pretty penny too.

 

I haven't seen it written before but I always thought that the 1-10 might be reserved for prototypes/pre-production cars as the production numbers quoted do not always match the VIN range.

 

For example the 1975 Carrera 2.7 (which it looks like you have) are VIN 911 560 0001 to 0518 but 508 is the number produced quoted on Porsche CoA's. Similarly the '76 Carrera 2.7 is 911 660 9001 to 9123 but I have seen 113 produced quoted.

 

Presumably this is because they were the same as the '74 Carrera 2.7 which would have had the pre-production cars.

 

As for the Turbo in question here Raven 930 on here runs the PCGB Turbo Register and may know about it.

 

 

Guy

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I haven't seen it written before but I always thought that the 1-10 might be reserved for prototypes/pre-production cars as the production numbers quoted do not always match the VIN range.

 

For example the 1975 Carrera 2.7 (which it looks like you have) are VIN 911 560 0001 to 0518 but 508 is the number produced quoted on Porsche CoA's. Similarly the '76 Carrera 2.7 is 911 660 9001 to 9123 but I have seen 113 produced quoted.

 

Presumably this is because they were the same as the '74 Carrera 2.7 which would have had the pre-production cars.

 

As for the Turbo in question here Raven 930 on here runs the PCGB Turbo Register and may know about it.

 

 

Guy

 

Yeah from memory I think there is a piece on this in the Ludvigsen book. The factory always reserves the first 10 vin numbers inclusive so 001 to 010 meaning customer (production) cars begin at 011 in any given year. This wasnt always the case in the early days but for G series cars on I think its right. These first ten are used as test mules, press cars, company drivers etc. I dont know if the factory actually produces ten cars, perhaps not, but it always reserves the first ten vin numbers regardless.

 

Your example on the 75 Carrera is out by 1? With the 75 turbo, there were 284 produced but only 273 customer cars with the first production car effectively being 011. Regardless the number produced is always quoted as 284 and 518 for the Carrera even if that includes the "porsche retained" cars.

 

The 76 Carrera 2.7 is an anomaly I think. Ive only ever heard about 123 produced and because they are a "magic 9" vin car I dont know if the vin reserve thing applies. There are people around who know a lot more about these than me.

 

Getting back to the red turbo. Would that number plate GLP always belong to that car? Here in Oz its very easy to get new number plates for any car at whim whether personalised ones or regular issue. Is that the case in the UK? Do we know if that car would definitely still have those plates or could they be on another car?

 

The same goes for 2 GOO. What happened to that car which was supposedly the first RHD 75 car produced and went to PCGB as a company demo. If 2 GOO was a production car (unlike the pre-production GLP) it would need to have a vin between 011 and 015 and be built in the early part of Jan 75. Im aware that the first car delivered in Oz RHD was 016.

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Yeah from memory I think there is a piece on this in the Ludvigsen book. The factory always reserves the first 10 vin numbers inclusive so 001 to 010 meaning customer (production) cars begin at 011 in any given year. This wasnt always the case in the early days but for G series cars on I think its right. These first ten are used as test mules, press cars, company drivers etc. I dont know if the factory actually produces ten cars, perhaps not, but it always reserves the first ten vin numbers regardless.

 

Your example on the 75 Carrera is out by 1? With the 75 turbo, there were 284 produced but only 273 customer cars with the first production car effectively being 011. Regardless the number produced is always quoted as 284 and 518 for the Carrera even if that includes the "porsche retained" cars.

 

The 76 Carrera 2.7 is an anomaly I think. Ive only ever heard about 123 produced and because they are a "magic 9" vin car I dont know if the vin reserve thing applies. There are people around who know a lot more about these than me.

 

Getting back to the red turbo. Would that number plate GLP always belong to that car? Here in Oz its very easy to get new number plates for any car at whim whether personalised ones or regular issue. Is that the case in the UK? Do we know if that car would definitely still have those plates or could they be on another car?

 

The same goes for 2 GOO. What happened to that car which was supposedly the first RHD 75 car produced and went to PCGB as a company demo. If 2 GOO was a production car (unlike the pre-production GLP) it would need to have a vin between 011 and 015 and be built in the early part of Jan 75. Im aware that the first car delivered in Oz RHD was 016.

 

You are right - a car could have pretty much any plate allocated to it - the only public info available from our licencing authority (DVLA) is below;

 

 

The vehicle details for GLP 870N are:

 

Date of Liability 01 11 2010

Date of First Registration 30 10 1974

Year of Manufacture 1974

Cylinder Capacity (cc) 2994CC

CO2 Emissions Not Available

Fuel Type Petrol

Export Marker Not Applicable

Vehicle Status SORN Not Due

Vehicle Colour RED

 

Given the details (eg. manufactured 1974 and registered late 74) suggests this is the same car, but its not proof ...

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Getting back to the red turbo. Would that number plate GLP always belong to that car? Here in Oz its very easy to get new number plates for any car at whim whether personalised ones or regular issue. Is that the case in the UK? Do we know if that car would definitely still have those plates or could they be on another car?

 

The same goes for 2 GOO. What happened to that car which was supposedly the first RHD 75 car produced and went to PCGB as a company demo. If 2 GOO was a production car (unlike the pre-production GLP) it would need to have a vin between 011 and 015 and be built in the early part of Jan 75. Im aware that the first car delivered in Oz RHD was 016.

 

Thanks for the info o the production numbers, I don't hsve the Ludvigsen book although I do have two big posters from it on my garage wall.

 

It is possible to change registrations between cars in the UK although these are usually 'personal' plates with initials or '911' or not age related, none of which apply to GLP 870N.

 

There is however limited information on a vehicle on the DVLA website and this indicates that GLP 870N is a red Porsche 2994cc first registered 30/10/1974 and currently taxed until 30/10/2010. This would indicate to me that it is the Turbo referred to and is in current use.

 

2 GOO however is not showing as being on a Porsche. As it is a personal plate I would expect that it is now attached to another make of car.

 

Guy

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Fascinating info. Because of the privacy laws we cant look up plate numbers like that.

 

The key piece of info there seems to be that it was registered at the end of Oct 74. Thats very early for a turbo and therefore it must have been produced in the month or two before that.

 

Ive just had another look through the library and a couple of things jumped out at me:

 

Firstly it wasnt Paul Frere (driver and author) who was giving test drives to the press and potential customers in GLP 870N but it was Nick Faure who was a factory race driver at that time. Got my p car personalities mixed up.

 

The article in Car UK of Dec 74 says that at time of printing that "porsche had taken 12 deposited orders with eight more probables" ... and that a sunroof will be standard for UK spec. This seems to be backed up by 2 GOO (the PCGB car) and 911 MOB which is the car in Feb 010 issue of C&SC mag. GLP is a sunroof delete car.

 

In Jun 09 issue of T&CC mag where 911 MOB is featured with the Aston they quote Nick Faure talking about GLP 870N:

 

"In 1974 racing driver Nick Faure was given the plum job of demonstrating the new Porsche Turbo to the worlds press. He recalls: "It was the only car running outside the factory, so I was very privileged. Up until then the 911 was just a sports car not mentioned in the same breath as Lamborghini, Ferrari etc. This car changed all that - it was a marketing and engineering breakthrough, and a whole breed of new customers queued up for a Porsche. I know because I had several weeks of individual demonstration days set up at dealers around the UK and even the chief of police of each area was invited to go out with me and experience a new sensation. They all wanted to reach the magical 160mph on open roads - and I had carte blanche for the day!"

 

"Porsche was very concerned about making the turbo handle properly, and it handled impeccably thanks mainly to the new shorter trailing arms which were developed specifically for it. It handles like a very well set up RS 2.7 that has been modified with the new trailing arms. The 3.3-litre destroyed the three litre's handling, it was a much heavier animal to drive. Even wearing 15" high profile tyres made no difference to the 3.0 - it had incredible road holding and nothing handled like that before. Now the 3.0 turbo is a very rare and very few people understand that it is a very special car in the history of the 911."

 

Given all that it sounds like GLP 870N is the only RHD pre production turbo made. Assuming it is still around it definitely should be tracked down..... and bought........ by us!!

 

I vote for a fund to be established to reward the person who finds it.

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just found this again from this older thread on here (http://www.impactbumpers.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=11059) from Raven930 ...

 

QUOTE (Bertroex @ Aug 19 2009, 04:44 PM)

You tease- you can't just get away with that without any pictures!

 

(btw, In case you need another top end rebuild, do give Mike Bainbridge finally a call. He'll be a lot cheaper then your previous source. )

 

Is it the motorshow car you always wanted?

 

Bert

 

..... having just picked up another big bill on a 964 turbo, a trip to the Lake District may well be in order if a thorough check tomorrow throws up any significant issues! Mind you. I have had offers of cost effective help from ex Autofarm friends much closer to home. However, bottom line re both Carrera 3 and 964 turbo is that they are now both pretty much spot on..... and that's the way the business plan was drawn up.

No...... it's not the specific one that I've been keeping my eye on for 5 years now!

John

Edited by earlybay
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just found this again from this older thread on here (http://www.impactbumpers.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=11059) from Raven930 ...

 

 

No...... it's not the specific one that I've been keeping my eye on for 5 years now!

 

John

 

This could also refer to the 1976 Earls Court Motor Show Martini Turbo:

 

From Porsche Cars GB information sheet:

 

'The Turbo on the Porsche Stand is finished in Grand Prix White paintwork and has leather upholstery in red, white and blue panels on the front seat inlays. Blue and red coachlines on the bodywork recall the track association with Martini Racing, to commemorate Porsche's double world championship in 1976, for Sportscars and Manufacturers'

 

 

 

Guy

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This could also refer to the 1976 Earls Court Motor Show Martini Turbo:

 

From Porsche Cars GB information sheet:

 

'The Turbo on the Porsche Stand is finished in Grand Prix White paintwork and has leather upholstery in red, white and blue panels on the front seat inlays. Blue and red coachlines on the bodywork recall the track association with Martini Racing, to commemorate Porsche's double world championship in 1976, for Sportscars and Manufacturers'

 

 

 

Guy

 

Ah, ok... I stand corrected - I guess John (Raven930) would be the person to ask ! I would assume 'GLP' could well be known to PCGB ...

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Ah, ok... I stand corrected - I guess John (Raven930) would be the person to ask ! I would assume 'GLP' could well be known to PCGB ...

 

 

I had already sent him an email asking if it is known to the Porsche Club but be aware that we are subject to confidentiality and data protection rules about giving out information.

 

Guy

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The "motorshow" car John and I were referring to (I was just born, so I didn't see it :whistling: ) was 1 of a a trio of black 911, ( a 2.7, a carrera 3 and a 930) with chrome detailing.

 

The martini didn't appear until the 3.3, and it was equipped with Dr Fuhrmann seats etc etc as a display of the Porsche Restauration department's skills. A canny marketeer for I think Porsche Cars GB made the suggestion to offer the external martini stripes on a GP white 930 as a factory option, but as far as I am aware, the martini "package" was not offered with the lairy interior colours.

 

HTH,

 

Bert

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The martini didn't appear until the 3.3, and it was equipped with Dr Fuhrmann seats etc etc as a display of the Porsche Restauration department's skills. A canny marketeer for I think Porsche Cars GB made the suggestion to offer the external martini stripes on a GP white 930 as a factory option, but as far as I am aware, the martini "package" was not offered with the lairy interior colours.

 

Bert, page 84 of the Cotton book shows the martini replica as imported for the '76 Earls Court motor show.

 

It says that most of the martini replica cars were ordered without the Fuhrmann seats (red white & blue panels) as they were an 800 pound option!

 

There was a "martini" option pack for the 3.3 also in 78/79 with or without the interior treatment. Someone on pelican was restoring a barn find example of these 78 cars.

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Bert, page 84 of the Cotton book shows the martini replica as imported for the '76 Earls Court motor show.

 

It says that most of the martini replica cars were ordered without the Fuhrmann seats (red white & blue panels) as they were an 800 pound option!

 

There was a "martini" option pack for the 3.3 also in 78/79 with or without the interior treatment. Someone on pelican was restoring a barn find example of these 78 cars.

 

Bert,

 

I think what blacklotus is saying and I agree is that the 1976 Motor Show car was a 3.0 Martini Turbo.

 

I was at both the '75 and '76 Motor Shows as it was two stops on the underground from my university. Unfortunately I was into Alfa Romeos and Jaguars then so probably didn't pay as much attention to the Porsches as I would now but assume the black cars were at the '75 show.

 

I think I have seen the Black Turbo at Porsche Club Festivals and must say the black with chrome trim looks superb just like the 2.4S I used to have.

 

 

 

Guy

Edited by Guy
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This could also refer to the 1976 Earls Court Motor Show Martini Turbo:

 

From Porsche Cars GB information sheet:

 

'The Turbo on the Porsche Stand is finished in Grand Prix White paintwork and has leather upholstery in red, white and blue panels on the front seat inlays. Blue and red coachlines on the bodywork recall the track association with Martini Racing, to commemorate Porsche's double world championship in 1976, for Sportscars and Manufacturers'

 

 

 

Guy

I remember standing by the barrier staring at those cars as a 15 year old lad. I just kept thinking that some day I would have one. Well, all those years later I have a white 3.2, but not the red, blue and white seats. I have toyed with removing the Carrera script and having the Martini stripes...maybe one day.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Ah, ok... I stand corrected - I guess John (Raven930) would be the person to ask ! I would assume 'GLP' could well be known to PCGB ...

 

Sorry for the delay gents - I've been abroad without internet access.... a very wierd experience!

Yes, the red 930 is the one that I still have my eye on..... and no, the owner still doesn't want to sell it!

Such is life....

John

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Sorry for the delay gents - I've been abroad without internet access.... a very wierd experience!

Yes, the red 930 is the one that I still have my eye on..... and no, the owner still doesn't want to sell it!

Such is life....

John

 

Oh well, at least youve got tabs on it, good to know its still around ..

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  • 14 years later...

That is it, I last saw it at the 'Classics at the Castle' event in 2014 when the theme was 40 years of the Turbo. The owner was saying that as a pre-production car it was fitted with variable boost!

Also at the event was the 'first Turbo' which was in a Carrera 2.7 body and presented to Ferry Porsche's sister Louise Piech for her 70th Birthday and is now in the Porsche Museum collection.

If looking for information on the 3.0 Turbo there is a complete and thorough book by Ryan Snodgrass or you can trawl through this thread on Ferrari Chat

https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/930-turbo-carrera.344030/

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