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Brummie

Brummie's G50-into-an-SC transplant

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Newbie saying Hi.....Having recently joined the IB forum I've been reading with interest a number of posts and thought it was time to say Hi and add my 1979 sc.

 

I've owned the car for sixteen years using it mainly on weekends and as a bit of fun but with a view to rebuilding it as time and funds would allow. As is always the way time and money has prevented this but finally in November 2008 work finally began. So far the bodyworks been completely stripped and resprayed. Most of it was in pretty good condition and only required a few repairs, the usual blistering of bumpers and water traps were dealt with along with a few modifications.

 

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A new head lining was added and whilst the glass was out the removal of the clocks enabled a respray of the dashboard. All new rubber seals and extrusions were fitted as the bodywork was assembed.

 

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A set of 7x16 and 9x16 fushs were next to fill the arches, they originally came from a turbo se which had white enamalled centers in excellent condition, the anodising was also excellent so it didn't take much to convert them to black. Whilst in this condition the suspension was refurbished along with all the suspension bushes and dampers. A full set of discs and pads were then fitted along with new brake lines and stainless flexibles. New wheel bearings, cv joints and turbo track rods finished off the suspension work.

 

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I've now reached the engine and gearbox stage of the project and I've decided to go down the same route as a number other members on here and that's to fit a 993 engine. I'm not very happy puting it on the end of a 915 gearbox so I'm going to use the G50 21 transmission. I figured if I have to cut out the torsion bar tube to fit any of the G50 boxes I may as well cut out a little more and fit the larger six speed. Reading some of the posts on this subject has made it seem a little less daunting and if anyone's interested I'll update as I go. I already have the engine which I'm preparing and the gearbox arrives next week.

 

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Edited by Brummie

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Of course we are interetsed post more details please,the car looks superb where in brum are you ?

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Welcome Brummie - looking forward to following this thread :signs118:

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Welcome to the IB forum,

 

 

Some great work going on there Brummie, it will be a real flyer with the 933 engine but a lot of work required to fit the 6 speed box, we'll all be watching with interest.

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welcome Brummie

This will be quite a project - looking forward to following this

Best of luck with the Engine & 6 speed Gearbox

Kieran

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Welcome, looking forward to following this thread :ani_nerd:

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Great job! Welcome.

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Nice work Mr - do you do all the work yourself?

 

6 Speed should be fun to fit, might be worth looking at the gear ratios between 5 and 6 speed before you do too much. My understanding is the 6 speed can feel a little sluggish unless its re-geared, I think thats why the 5 speed 964 can feel like it has a little more punch than a 6 speed 993 even tho the 993 has a little more poke. I think it was Bill V's posts on pelican that I got this info from.

 

Here is Denis Kalmas 6 speed post on Pelican - he's been at it for many many years and its still not sorted!

 

Good luck with the 3.6 lump - another fun mission :)

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Wow. Car looks fantastic, and must feel great having back into that condition after owning for so long.

 

The engine/gearbox should be fun, and I look forward to your updates.

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car looks great

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Car looks great, sure you are pleased with the way its going.

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Car looks great.

 

Who did the body and paint?

 

What is the colour? - looks like venetian blue, but not sure.

 

Actually no, too 'blue' for venetian.

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The car was originally white but I wanted it resprayed Scheafer Blue, paint code L661. This colour has been discontinued and is no longer available as it was a celulose paint. We managed to get a breakdown of the ingredients which made up this colour and converted them to make up a water based paint, the match was identical.

 

With the gearbox ratios opinion seems to be divided and its a case of who you talk to. The american 6 speed box G50/20 has different ratios to that of the european 6 speed box G50/21, something to do with ecconomy & noise, from what I've been able to find out it looks like the european G50/21 box is the one to go for. Check out http://p-car.com/gearfaq/ The car will spend most of its life on the road with only the occasional track day so with the close ratios of the G50/21 this should give good alround driveability.

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Edited by Brummie

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Car looks stunning Brummie, good luck with the project

 

Shirish

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Wow an excellent project! Car looks fantastic I can't wait to read about the engine progress!

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Of course we are interetsed post more details please,the car looks superb where in brum are you ?

 

I'm in Lichfield....... btw nice job you're making of that engine... Very impressive

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Got a few things sorted over the last couple of weeks and have managed to make a little progress.......

Turned a couple of blanking caps for power steering pump and not sure what the one on the opposite side is called?

Collected the gearbox last weekend and had some good news with it, found out it had been fitted with a LSD so that was a bonus. Bolting the two together has enabled me to get a few dimensions and measure up the bodywork to see what's required to shoe horn it all in.

 

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First up the overall dimension of the engine and gearbox is just too long for the space between the rear floor baulkhead and the rear engine mounts. It is possible to reduce the length of the gearbox which would make the world of difference once the torsion bar tube has been cut away. Alternativly it's also possible without shortening the gearbox, again with the torsion tube cut away and by cutting back the rear bulkhead. This would allow the gearbox to sit further into the car between the rear seats. Downside though is that it would require more structural work to the body shell...... So the first option looks favorite. Shortening the bell housing and input shaft of the gearbox by the 30mm will allow things to fit nicely.

 

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While thats in progress I'll also be looking at fabricating and strengthening the torsion tube area, this will have to be braced before any cutting of the torsion tube takes place as the sucsess of the suspension geometry will be dependant on this areas ridgidity. While I'm at it I'll also brace the top of the shock absorber mounts in case I ever decide to convert to coil overs.

 

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Another item on the list are the drive shafts. I want to use the SC's drive shafts and CV joints. The CV joints of the SC differ from those on a 993. The 993 is bigger with a larger PCD and M10 fixings so I've decided to adapt the gearbox flanges to fit my SC CV joints and see how well they hold up (Just recently fitted new ones so they should be good). I've plugged the six M10 tapped holes in the flanges and I'll be redrilling and tapping them M8 at the smaller PCD of 86mm. The G50 drive flange faces are also 6mm further apart when measured from one side to the other than those on a 915 box so to keep everything the same for the CV's and drive shafts I've recessed the flanges by 3mm each side to maintain this dimension, it should also help the CV joint to run true.

 

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I'm going to need to do something with the speedo sensor as there is no sensor in this gearbox, 993's use a sensor off the front wheel and I think its linked with the ABS. Does anyone have any info about the sensor fitted to the SC 915 gearbox, better still a photo of the gear inside the box which the sensor picks up on as I'll probably have to try and replicate something like it off one of the drive shafts.

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Wow I take my hat off to you with this little project. Pete Bell recently fitted a G50 gearbox to his '75, there's a thread on here about it. He dispensed with torsion bars altogether and fitted coil overs and some trick springplates from the States. But his G50 came from a late 3.2 Carrera so was short enough to fit into the existing shell without chomping away at the rear bulkhead. You might gain an extra half an inch by bending back the engine mount cradle, needed to do that to get a 3.6 in my SC, but I suspect that won't be enough and you'll need some surgery.

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Wow, big project, fair play to you.

 

Could you chop off the front mounting area and shorten the boss where the gear linkage comes out, there is probably a good 40mm there you could lose, might make a big hole a less big hole in your car to make it fit.

You would then need to fab up a front mounting cradle as per a 5-speed G50 box and mount that off longer studs on the front housing joint.

 

I think the 930 engine is positioned 25mm further rearward than an SC/Carrera engine, not sure how it was done though but I am sure someone on here does.

 

If you can't get it to fit I would be interested in buying in from you :D

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Hi there from another '79 Midland newbie!

 

That looks the business, what a great project! :ani_clapping:

And theres me calling fitting new mirrors, bootlid and a bit of paintwork a project!

 

Look forward to seeing its progress! :cool:

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Wow I take my hat off to you with this little project. Pete Bell recently fitted a G50 gearbox to his '75, there's a thread on here about it. He dispensed with torsion bars altogether and fitted coil overs and some trick springplates from the States. But his G50 came from a late 3.2 Carrera so was short enough to fit into the existing shell without chomping away at the rear bulkhead. You might gain an extra half an inch by bending back the engine mount cradle, needed to do that to get a 3.6 in my SC, but I suspect that won't be enough and you'll need some surgery.

 

Thanks for that I'll see if I can find the post.... all info appreciated

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Wow, big project, fair play to you.

 

Could you chop off the front mounting area and shorten the boss where the gear linkage comes out, there is probably a good 40mm there you could lose, might make a big hole a less big hole in your car to make it fit.

You would then need to fab up a front mounting cradle as per a 5-speed G50 box and mount that off longer studs on the front housing joint.

 

I think the 930 engine is positioned 25mm further rearward than an SC/Carrera engine, not sure how it was done though but I am sure someone on here does.

 

If you can't get it to fit I would be interested in buying in from you :D

 

Don't worry.... I'll get it to fit.

Thanks for that, yes I will have to cut the front rubber mounting off the gearbox and fab up a mounting further back. It looks like with that and the 30mm reduction on the bell housing it should fit in, hopefully then I'll not need to cut out the rear baulkhead.

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Inventive stuff with the driveshafts etc, good work, I'm sure you will soon have fitted.

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