Busybee Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 Spoke to a very helpful chap at SCM Remapping in Swansea this morning (https://scm-remaps.co.uk/). He basically laid it out. Unless you have a standalone ECU such as Motec, Emerald or Delta, you really need to go to the guys that have the stuff to connect to the old motronic systems. Better still, a chap who knows your brand of car and is experienced with them. So I've stopped being a lazy b*****d. Wayne Schofield booked. Be another fun Porsche day out. My Mrs is going to kill me! 🙈 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxDiesel Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 41 minutes ago, Busybee said: Spoke to a very helpful chap at SCM Remapping in Swansea this morning (https://scm-remaps.co.uk/). He basically laid it out. Unless you have a standalone ECU such as Motec, Emerald or Delta, you really need to go to the guys that have the stuff to connect to the old motronic systems. Better still, a chap who knows your brand of car and is experienced with them. That's sound advice. In the long run if you want to give yourself more mapping options and make the system simpler you could switch to a Canems ECU - this is what I'm running on mine these days with the MAF unit feeding directly into it (no separate MAF controller). It requires a short adapter loom from the MAF to the original loom - I can provide details for this. Anyone who's used to working with standalone ECUs like the ones you've listed should be fine with the Canems software - its pretty straightforward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johndglynn Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 Looking forward to following progress in your ownership. So many fun miles have been clocked in this car - it is a proper forum character 👍🏻 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busybee Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 Just now, MaxDiesel said: That's sound advice. In the long run if you want to give yourself more mapping options and make the system simpler you could switch to a Canems ECU - this is what I'm running on mine these days with the MAF unit feeding directly into it (no separate MAF controller). It requires a short adapter loom from the MAF to the original loom - I can provide details for this. Anyone who's used to working with standalone ECUs like the ones you've listed should be fine with the Canems software - its pretty straightforward. Please mate. The more details the better. Chap at SCM this morning had experience with the Delta and said they were pretty good. Might be a next step for me - but another rolling road Setup! lol 2 minutes ago, johndglynn said: Looking forward to following progress in your ownership. So many fun miles have been clocked in this car - it is a proper forum character 👍🏻 Cheers John. Looking forward to getting miles under my belt in her. She's lovely - in a brutish way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxDiesel Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 41 minutes ago, Busybee said: Please mate. The more details the better. Chap at SCM this morning had experience with the Delta and said they were pretty good. Might be a next step for me - but another rolling road Setup! lol There's some more info here from when I installed the Canems ECU on mine: https://www.impactbumpers.com/forum/index.php?/topic/31221-canems-innovate-mtx-l-install-with-maf/ You don't necessarily need the Lambda kit too - I mapped mine on the road so it was essential for me to be able to log Lambda along with the other ECU parameters. The Canems ECU has always had the ability to run with a MAF rather than a VFM - seems I was the first to give it go though. I think David at Canems has helped someone else with the same set-up - he was asking me of the part number of the MAF unit I'm using not so long ago. If you switch to Canems you also have the option of going to MAP based system and do away with the MAF too. I prefer MAF for accuracy of AFR control etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busybee Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 7 minutes ago, MaxDiesel said: There's some more info here from when I installed the Canems ECU on mine: https://www.impactbumpers.com/forum/index.php?/topic/31221-canems-innovate-mtx-l-install-with-maf/ You don't necessarily need the Lambda kit too - I mapped mine on the road so it was essential for me to be able to log Lambda along with the other ECU parameters. The Canems ECU has always had the ability to run with a MAF rather than a VFM - seems I was the first to give it go though. I think David at Canems has helped someone else with the same set-up - he was asking me of the part number of the MAF unit I'm using not so long ago. If you switch to Canems you also have the option of going to MAP based system and do away with the MAF too. I prefer MAF for accuracy of AFR control etc. Thanks Matt. Shall I just bring the car to you and we'll get it banged out in a day? 🤣😜 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busybee Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 Is the Canems a plug and play. Won't I need a trigger wheel, bespoke loom etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxDiesel Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 5 hours ago, Busybee said: Is the Canems a plug and play. Won't I need a trigger wheel, bespoke loom etc? Yes - it's made a a direct swap unit for the existing Motronic unit - you could just fit and it would run along with the MAF control unit - although it would need re-mapping for you engine mods. With an adapter loom and a calibration update you could then remove the MAF controller (and map it again...). 5 hours ago, Busybee said: Thanks Matt. Shall I just bring the car to you and we'll get it banged out in a day? 🤣😜 Its a shame you're so far away - I'd be happy to give you a hand setting it up with a Canems unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SP72 Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 He’s got lots of candles to barter with Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busybee Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 1 hour ago, MaxDiesel said: Yes - it's made a a direct swap unit for the existing Motronic unit - you could just fit and it would run along with the MAF control unit - although it would need re-mapping for you engine mods. With an adapter loom and a calibration update you could then remove the MAF controller (and map it again...). Its a shame you're so far away - I'd be happy to give you a hand setting it up with a Canems unit. Ahh thanks. I am pretty much in the middle of nowhere. Be good to meet you sometime in any case 👍 Spoke to Wayne Schofield by text. I asked “Is there much advantage in going standalone ECU? Canems?” To which he replied “Not much really. For better refinement it would be better to fit the original AFM.” Thats thrown the cat amongst the pigeons right. 39 minutes ago, SP72 said: He’s got lots of candles to barter with Lol candle crazy nuts are we..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busybee Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 Knocked up a headliner from some 10mm foil faced open cell foam and a meter of alcantara type fabric. Cut the foam to fit above the roll cage and stuck the fabric to the foam sheet. Peeled off the backing in sections and stuck the whole thing to the bare metal roof. About £20 of materials and two hours of swearing. Result. The heat in the sun of the bare metal roof inside the cabin is significant and hopefully a bit of sound insulation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SP72 Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 Ask Wayne what he thinks about big bore throttle bodies (prepare to make a sharp exit) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busybee Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 10 minutes ago, SP72 said: Ask Wayne what he thinks about big bore throttle bodies (prepare to make a sharp exit) Lol I will - after he’s sorted my car 😂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Rock Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 1 hour ago, Busybee said: Knocked up a headliner from some 10mm foil faced open cell foam and a meter of alcantara type fabric. Pics or it doesn’t exist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busybee Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 5 minutes ago, Dr Rock said: Pics or it doesn’t exist Lol sorry Doc. I did think where’s my phone. Think suede ceiling 😎 I’ll snap a photo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busybee Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 13 hours ago, Dr Rock said: Pics or it doesn’t exist Here you go Doc. New suede roof plus a gratuitous shot cause I flipping love this car 😂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxDiesel Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 17 hours ago, Busybee said: Spoke to Wayne Schofield by text. I asked “Is there much advantage in going standalone ECU? Canems?” To which he replied “Not much really. For better refinement it would be better to fit the original AFM.” It depends what you want to do in the long run - if you want to be able to tweak the calibration yourself or use your local rolling road, then switching to a modern ECU is a big plus. The guys that can connect to 1980's motronic systems are few and far between now. We had a cupboard full of 1980's Motronic calibration equipment at work (e.g. Dataman S4).... unfortunately it all got binned in the late 90's when we didn't think we'd need it any more ☹️ You can get close to the same result with the original Motronic but you're reliant on guys like Wayne to get you there. Re the better refinement with an original AFM - he's right in some cases... it depends what your system is made up from. The original VFM units are naturally damped due to the weight of the barn door flap and the return spring. Consequently they give a very smooth volume flow signal that requires little or no software damping in the Motronic ECU. Some MAF units have built in electronics that discriminate between positive and negative flow (pulsation) and also apply some damping. Other MAF units output the raw signal and rely on SW in the main ECU to do all the signal processing - this is more common now as ECUs have so much processing power onboard. So - if you fit a cheap modern MAF, which has no internal signal processing, and apply a minimal signal correction to emulate a VFM signal it will not be good - the signal will fluctuate at a rate far higher than the ECU is expecting and you'll get driveability issues. I'm guessing Wayne has encountered some like this - hence his view. The kit I put together back in 2009 (Can't believe it was 10years ago!) uses an older generation MAF unit with onboard pulse correction and damping - even then we found the signal response was too fast for the Motronic ECU so we damped it further in the SW. Having driven my car with the kit on for ~7years I can't recall any refinement issues - the only glitch was not extending the altitude calculation far enough for the highest mountain passes in Europe... which RB kindly discovered for me 😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxDiesel Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 ...and the new headliner looks great Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SP72 Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 Headliner looks very good. Is it safe to drive without a helmet in a fully caged car? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busybee Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 1 hour ago, MaxDiesel said: ...and the new headliner looks great 1 hour ago, MaxDiesel said: It depends what you want to do in the long run - if you want to be able to tweak the calibration yourself or use your local rolling road, then switching to a modern ECU is a big plus. The guys that can connect to 1980's motronic systems are few and far between now. We had a cupboard full of 1980's Motronic calibration equipment at work (e.g. Dataman S4).... unfortunately it all got binned in the late 90's when we didn't think we'd need it any more ☹️ You can get close to the same result with the original Motronic but you're reliant on guys like Wayne to get you there. Re the better refinement with an original AFM - he's right in some cases... it depends what your system is made up from. The original VFM units are naturally damped due to the weight of the barn door flap and the return spring. Consequently they give a very smooth volume flow signal that requires little or no software damping in the Motronic ECU. Some MAF units have built in electronics that discriminate between positive and negative flow (pulsation) and also apply some damping. Other MAF units output the raw signal and rely on SW in the main ECU to do all the signal processing - this is more common now as ECUs have so much processing power onboard. So - if you fit a cheap modern MAF, which has no internal signal processing, and apply a minimal signal correction to emulate a VFM signal it will not be good - the signal will fluctuate at a rate far higher than the ECU is expecting and you'll get driveability issues. I'm guessing Wayne has encountered some like this - hence his view. The kit I put together back in 2009 (Can't believe it was 10years ago!) uses an older generation MAF unit with onboard pulse correction and damping - even then we found the signal response was too fast for the Motronic ECU so we damped it further in the SW. Having driven my car with the kit on for ~7years I can't recall any refinement issues - the only glitch was not extending the altitude calculation far enough for the highest mountain passes in Europe... which RB kindly discovered for me 😉 Thanks Matt. Just did around 100 miles around A and B roads and besides the stalling when cold or if you’re at low revs and coming to idle, she’s running well. Pulls nice and clean. Think I’ll stick with the existing system for now and get Wayne to remap it. See how I go in the future if I look to upgrade anything and an ecu. Do I need to upgrade the MAF to a later generation unit? 49 minutes ago, SP72 said: Headliner looks very good. Is it safe to drive without a helmet in a fully caged car? Thanks Shirish. Loads of padding on the bars and to be honest, I’d rather have it than not. Safety first. You should see my sun visor 😂 (bit of rubber flap that turns on the lagging). Brill We’ll be visiting the view photo below on our drive out. And I found a pick-a-nik table 😂 Think the front needs to come up 5mm or so. Gets skittish up front under heavy braking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy M Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 Bacon AND egg - very civilised! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SP72 Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 Nice - my car still broken, i’m up gainst the clock! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busybee Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 51 minutes ago, SP72 said: Nice - my car still broken, i’m up gainst the clock! Nooooo! What’s up. Thought they’d changed the chts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SP72 Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 49 minutes ago, Busybee said: Nooooo! What’s up. Thought they’d changed the chts? Still got a low idle and hesitant to rev. Have ordered a Motec dongle to plug into my laptop to see what’s up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busybee Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 5 minutes ago, SP72 said: Still got a low idle and hesitant to rev. Have ordered a Motec dongle to plug into my laptop to see what’s up. Didn’t yo7 have it mapped recently Shirish? Not worth talking to them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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