BB’s ex RB 3.2 Hot Rod

[Richard Bernau]

The car has Superpro engine and gearbox mounts already.

[SP72]

Make sure you're comparing apples and apples - worn original/OEM  parts vs new improved/Wevo isn't scientific.  It's like the Turbo Tierods 'yay-sayers'.

Having said that, I have the JWest Rennshift which tidies up any G50 looseness quite nicely. 325USD.

 

[reddevil]

Yup that's a good point. I'm having Fenn Lane check the lot whilst it's in for the annual service in Oct.

[jevvy]

On 9/23/2017 at 6:48 PM, alexwagner73 said:

I collected RB's 3.2 hot rod yesterday and drove it straight back to Paris via the tunnel.

Stopping for a fill-up with the pornographic Porsche:

 

Congrats, you picked a winner there!

Already posted better pics than RB managed in the 99 years he owned it!

Looking forward to seeing this one develop - time for your own thread maybe?

 

[alexwagner73]

6 hours ago, jevvy said:

Congrats, you picked a winner there!

Already posted better pics than RB managed in the 99 years he owned it!

Looking forward to seeing this one develop - time for your own thread maybe?

 

Thanks Jevvy. ;-)

I'm going to continue that car's history on this thread because I like the idea of maintaining a continuous history.

I have no problem with it forever being called RB's 3.2 hot rod because RB is the creator of the car. I am just the current custodian. :-)

[strosek34]

Alex,

Your brilliant pictures show just how good the car looks,  

Jevvey's right ,  why didn't you take such good pictures Rich 

 

 

 

[alexwagner73]

I would like to make my hot rod a little more useable and versatile, year round, to maximise enjoyment.

SEAT HEATING:
Planning on following RedDevil's lead with electric seat heating. 4 elements ; 1 for each of the 4 Recaro Pole Position cushions.
Only doing driver's seat because it's not exactly a car for taking the wife out and I do driving trips solo.
While I'm at it, I plan on having the seat cushions recovered in tartan fabric.

CABIN HEATING:
Also, I'm looking at electric air heating for the cabin to improve on the existing small air-air exhaust heat exchangers.

Demon Tweeks offer a system: https://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/motorsport/cockpit-ventilation/demon-tweeks-12v-600w-ducted-electric-cab-heater

And this hot rod 911 is advertised as having a Webasto electric heater fitted to the underbonnet smuggler's box:
http://www.onassisporsches.com/HOME/Cars-for-SALE/
So I guess I'm confident to try the Webasto route, fitted to the smuggler's box.

Anyone here tried such electric cabin air heating?

If combined with 4 seat heating elements, might a 2KW air heater not risk overloading the fuse box / electrical system?

Cheers,

[alexwagner73]

(anyone know how many meters of fabric are needed to recover 2 x 4 Recaro Pole Position cushions?)

[Roy M]

1 hour ago, alexwagner73 said:

 

http://www.onassisporsches.com/HOME/Cars-for-SALE/
So I guess I'm confident to try the Webasto route, fitted to the smuggler's box.

That's LHD so bigger box!

[alexwagner73]

21 minutes ago, Roy M said:

That's LHD so bigger box!

Ah! Thanks for the info ; I'll check dimensions and otherwise install in cabin, behind seat.

[Roy M]

In my experience Demon Tweens are useless. Try https://www.carbuildersolutions.com/uk/

Roy

[reddevil]

My car has a very similar heat setup to yours - honestly if you have the seat heaters I doubt you'll need the additional heater unless you are planning some skiing trips in it.

Had the bum warmers on today on the way back from Oxford, with the windows wide open so I could hear the motor as I drove through the Cotswolds :-))))

Edited October 1, 2017 by reddevil

[alexwagner73]

2 minutes ago, reddevil said:

My car has a very similar heat setup to yours - honestly if you have the seat heaters I doubt you'll need the additional heater unless you are planning some skiing trips in it.

Had the bum warmers on today on the way back from Oxford, with the windows wide open so I could hear the motor as I drove through the Cotswolds :-))))

OK I'll try just the seat heating first.

I think you're probably right because in the winter I do like driving convertibles with the top down (so cold cabin air) so long as they have seat heaters...

[reddevil]

One hack I did do, I had the floor blowers wired up to a switch. I think they are automatically controlled on a factory autoheat setup, but on my car that facility had been deleted.

This pulls significantly more heat through from the exchangers, certainly much more than the pitiful amount coming through the vents. 

Not sure if RB has already deleted the blowers for weight saving reasons.

[ALEX P]

Electric heaters on their own are pretty much useless as there just isn't enough amps to provide useful heat.

Electric heated seats are good but doesn't stop your toes from getting frostbite!

Footwell blowers provide good useful heat depending on the heat exchanger/header box and can be directed at the screen or your feet. This is what I settled on in the end.

Just now, ALEX P said:

Electric heaters on their own are pretty much useless as there just aren't enough amps to provide useful heat. Jonny now sells a juicier alternator so there may be more options available with that. 

http://classicretrofit.com/products/upgraded-alternators/

Electric heated seats are good but doesn't stop your toes from getting frostbite!

Footwell blowers provide good useful heat depending on the heat exchanger/header box and can be directed at the screen or your feet. This is what I settled on in the end.

 

[Leicestershire]

Dansk are planning to start manufacturing SSI's to match the 3.2 exhaust ports. These would be an easy option to give plenty of heat with little or no compromise.

[Jonny Hart]

5 hours ago, ALEX P said:

Electric heaters on their own are pretty much useless as there just isn't enough amps to provide useful heat.

Electric heated seats are good but doesn't stop your toes from getting frostbite!

Footwell blowers provide good useful heat depending on the heat exchanger/header box and can be directed at the screen or your feet. This is what I settled on in the end.

 

As you may remember, my first project (2011?) was electric heat.  Well, that got canned, not enough power as you say.  I've recently got the project underway again because of technology improvements in alternators.  

The 110A alternator we have is a mere stepping stone to a 150A unit we have in development.    This should be a game changer and enable PTC heating to work effectively.  

Getting the power output is easy, but managing the heat produced by the alternator is not.  The irony is that although the alternator is inside the engine fan, the fan provides very little cooling, in fact it hinders cooling as it cups round the alternator preventing airflow.  This is why we have moved to a new design where the alternator has internal fans.

We did try winding the standard alternator to 130A, it barbecued itself.  It is a great game trying to remove an alternator from a magnesium fan housing when it is over 90 degrees C with smoke pouring out.   On the plus side, I can now get an alternator out of a 911 in about 20 mins!   R&D init!

[alexwagner73]

On 01/10/2017 at 5:34 PM, reddevil said:

One hack I did do, I had the floor blowers wired up to a switch. I think they are automatically controlled on a factory autoheat setup, but on my car that facility had been deleted.

This pulls significantly more heat through from the exchangers, certainly much more than the pitiful amount coming through the vents. 

Not sure if RB has already deleted the blowers for weight saving reasons.

RB deleted the blowers because they seized. He recommends I fit some inline blowers, in the hot air ducts from the exhaust exchangers if I understand. Seems like a plan, for the toes.

What blowers would you recommend? And where can they be sourced please?

Thanks,

[ALEX P]

That's exactly what the footwell blowers do!

You could mess around with an aftermarket inline blower but I'd probably just find a pair of the standard items as they will be easy to fit 

[Sidewaysfun]

On 10/1/2017 at 10:38 PM, Jonny Hart said:

As you may remember, my first project (2011?) was electric heat.  Well, that got canned, not enough power as you say

Hi Jonny, do you think the stock alternator and electric heat suffice purely as a demist setup? 

Heat is lower on my priority list than a decent exhaust setup, and I am going to guess that the new Dansk 41mm SSI will be priced quite high.

I am contemplating canning the heat exchangers for conventional manifolds and adding electric heat.  I am hoping to do a 3.6 conversion in the near future so don't want to invest thousands in heat exchangers only to have to repeat the exercise (and cost).

Ultimately, it sounds like you're on the path to a decent electric setup in the future, so I would likely go down this route if/when you're happy with the final product. 

[Richard Bernau]

I would try 3 things -

1. Heated 964 screen (to my shame, I admit that the car could do with a new screen as the current is chipped and rather "sand blasted").  That will handle demisting and you can check screen corner condition etc which is good maintenance.
2. Heated seat pads.  There is power under the seats as the wiring for original electric seats is still in place with bagged connectors IIRC.
3. Inline pull through blowers.  Porsche ones are expensive, so I would look at Car Builder Supplies or even bilge blowers from marine stores.  Once the cover under the bonnet is removed you will see how basic the vent system is so re-routing from screen to feet of the current heat is fairly simple. 

[alexwagner73]

The car being very much in trackday spec right now, I'm finding it needlessly harsh and tiring for fast road use on the sometimes imperfect roads around my country house.

As well as aforementionned heating, I'm considering:
- suspension : the springs and dampers feel pliant enough, although it feels like the suspension has no rubber in it. The steering feels great as a result, but the lack of "give" doesn't work on imperfect roads and limits on-road progress
- geometry : feels very track-oriented. Simply fabulous on the right bit of smooth winding tarmac, but too darty for longer road stints on varying roads. I'd like the car to be more capable of touring, albeit not quite so razor sharp on smooth mountain passes.
- notably quieter exhaust (RB, do you know what I can fit on the car?)
- headlining (RB, do you have a supplier for the alcantara you used for seats and door cards?)

Not sure what else to consider. Any advice would be welcome, especially from RB of course. ;-)

[Richard Bernau]

6 hours ago, alexwagner73 said:

The car being very much in trackday spec right now, I'm finding it needlessly harsh and tiring for fast road use on the sometimes imperfect roads around my country house.

As well as aforementionned heating, I'm considering:
- suspension : the springs and dampers feel pliant enough, although it feels like the suspension has no rubber in it. The steering feels great as a result, but the lack of "give" doesn't work on imperfect roads and limits on-road progress
- geometry : feels very track-oriented. Simply fabulous on the right bit of smooth winding tarmac, but too darty for longer road stints on varying roads. I'd like the car to be more capable of touring, albeit not quite so razor sharp on smooth mountain passes.
- notably quieter exhaust (RB, do you know what I can fit on the car?)
- headlining (RB, do you have a supplier for the alcantara you used for seats and door cards?)

Not sure what else to consider. Any advice would be welcome, especially from RB of course. ;-)

I have a few thoughts (predictably!):

- it's not the bushings.  Its spring and damper rates plus suspension travel.  I would swap the 22mm front torsion bars for 21mm and either revalve the Bilsteins a little softer or get something more expensive from Tuthills.  Also raise the ride height a little all round as it is fairly low and big bumps can have the front suspension on the bump stops.  That is the crashing you get on bigger bumps.  I 100% would not put rubber bushings back in - but that is clearly not my call anymore!

- yes the geo is track focussed. Get it checked before radically altering.  You need the neg camber for handling but you can certainly add a degree of front toe in order to get straight line stability.  That alone will get rid of almost all the dartiness.  I think you will find its close to zero toe if not a fraction toe-out at the moment, so you have plenty of scope to dial out the dartiness.

- you wanted the 888 tyres  - they are part of the problem unfortunately as they have very hard sidewalls.  Run a 50 series road tyre (like the Bridgestones) and much of what you are feeling is toned down a couple of notches.  888s are also stupidly noisy.

- you can fit any (normal) 2-in rear muffler.  The flange spacing on the headers is the same as an early 911, so all SSi compatible mufflers will work.  I would try a cheap mild steel Dansk 2-in 1-out as the mild steel are quieter and also cheaper.  You will need to either cut the rear bumper for the side exit/s or cut off the tail pipe and weld on a down turned pipe to hide behind the bumper.  I would do the later.  Paint it all in heat proof BBQ satin black paint.  You will suffer a few lost hp as the car is tuned for what it has now.  If you fancy spending loads, I have other ideas....

- You could try inserts in the tail pipes for volume control.  I have one from TThomas - lost the second when it came loose and blew out somewhere.  He can make you inserts.  They only take a little volume away though.  But they will be cheap and maybe worth a try.

- Try duct taping the holes up at the back of the roof.  The factory seal disintegrated some time ago and was removed.  Headlining will help a tad.  I would closed cell, sticky back foam it all first.  Personally I would use pale perforated vinyl for the headlining to lighten things a tad.  That's what I had until the glue melted in Slovenia and it fell off.  Maybe revert to a glass screen?

I can't recall the trimmers I used but it will come to me.  It was the Leigh-on-Sea guys.  I think VT recommended them IIRC.  It will come to me.

[Dr Rock]

6 minutes ago, Richard Bernau said:

That's what I had until the glue melted in Slovenia and it fell off. 

Mmm, it was indeed rather hot...

[SP72]

Same Neil at AutoInteriors that I used?

last email address I have was:

autointeriors@autointeriors.plus.com