Brake caliper refurb specialists

[Busybee]

Thanks guys. Ton's of useful info there. 

2 hours ago, jevvy said:

if you are doing refurbed calipers and new pads I'd chuck a set of new discs on and keep the old ones as spares tbh.

Yup, was thinking that Jev but don't tell @Type911 - Doh! 

Thanks @SP72. Never heard of them to be honest. 

No complaints with the DS2500's to be honest but nothing to compare them with other than standard pads and brakes. Wondered if there were better options having gone to this trouble and expense with a refurb and new discs.

Hand of god sounds good. Does little Maradonna come with a set complete with a pot belly and a coke habit I seriously doubt I could fund? 

Anyone tried the PFC 0447.11? I don't do big miles, am likely much slower than the fast boys but be nice to have quality brakes for when I get on it. 

 

[flappa2]

On 06/05/2020 at 22:13, Busybee said:

Thanks VT. Makes me feel better that those calliper bolts were stuck on that tight that long ago. Well, I got em! Lol 

Which PFC pads VT? https://www.design911.co.uk/fu/pt66_1642_-cma81-cmo107/Porsche/964--911--1989-94/Performance-Friction-Brakes/

Yup. Thanks. I’ll take off the discs and see what they’re like when off. Clean them and see where I am 👍

Take another trip up to Melvyn and get him to take a clean up cut across the face of the discs - given the other advice in terms of user thickness they should be good as new for another few years.

 

[Richard Bernau]

I doubt any of us have used the new PFCs. I would ask how they are different or better than old 97 compound. 
 

The 2500s are fine until you try something better and then you will think they are rubbish. I used them in my last 2 alpine trips because the 97s created so much dust. But the confidence you get attacking downhill hairpins with the 97s was totally different. Even more pronounced on track. 
 

I would also stick new discs in as they are not so expensive. $0.02. 

[Busybee]

Thanks RB. Ferodo DSUno look good. As does DS3.12

https://www.ferodoracing.com/products/car-racing/racing-brake-pads/ds3-12/

Edited May 8, 2020 by Busybee

[Flat 6]

I used the run these Porterfields on a previous SC that I tracked a lot. Recommendation from Johnny Holland at Unit 11.

https://www.pmbperformance.com/catalog/item/1925576/7993447.htm

Really nice pad that didn't produce a huge amount of dust but kept going all day on track.

Al.

[Von Twinzig]

12 hours ago, Busybee said:

Thanks RB. Ferodo DSUno look good. As does DS3.12

https://www.ferodoracing.com/products/car-racing/racing-brake-pads/ds3-12/

Speak to Alan at Questmead. I’ve always had great advice from him. Tell him the spec of your car and what you’re planning to do with it, then trust to his experience to spec the right setup or you. And don’t be afraid to run different compounds front and rear in order to tweak the balance and feel. https://www.questmead.co.uk/

VT
 

 

[Busybee]

25 minutes ago, Flat 6 said:

I used the run these Porterfields on a previous SC that I tracked a lot. Recommendation from Johnny Holland at Unit 11.

https://www.pmbperformance.com/catalog/item/1925576/7993447.htm

Really nice pad that didn't produce a huge amount of dust but kept going all day on track.

Al.

Thanks Al. Shirish mentioned those too. They seem a decent price. R4 or R4-S 🤔 .5 coefficient of friction is serious grippy compared to all the ferodo pads. 

[Busybee]

22 minutes ago, Von Twinzig said:

Speak to Alan at Questmead. I’ve always had great advice from him. Tell him the spec of your car and what you’re planning to do with it, then trust to his experience to spec the right setup or you. And don’t be afraid to run different compounds front and rear in order to tweak the balance and feel. https://www.questmead.co.uk/

VT

Thanks VT. I’ll do that 👍

[SP72]

1 hour ago, Busybee said:

Thanks Al. Shirish mentioned those too. They seem a decent price. R4 or R4-S 🤔 .5 coefficient of friction is serious grippy compared to all the ferodo pads. 

The S is the fast road compound, the non-S blurs more into track use.

http://www.porterfieldbrakes.co.uk/our-brake-pads

 

Edited May 9, 2020 by SP72

[Busybee]

2 hours ago, SP72 said:

The S is the fast road compound, the non-S blurs more into track use.

http://www.porterfieldbrakes.co.uk/our-brake-pads

 

Thanks Shirish. They are a decent price by the looks of it. And at that friction coefficient must be decent stoppers. I'd ask @Sopor but I'm guessing he hasn't had much chance to try your old brakes out. Needs a foray into Wales! 

Did they last well? Munch discs? 

[SP72]

9 hours ago, Busybee said:

Thanks Shirish. They are a decent price by the looks of it. And at that friction coefficient must be decent stoppers. I'd ask @Sopor but I'm guessing he hasn't had much chance to try your old brakes out. Needs a foray into Wales! 

Did they last well? Munch discs? 

Lasted very well with my 100% road use,  as did the Sebro discs

Maybe the 2500 had better initial bite, but the above qualities, plus the very low dust made them my fave.

[Busybee]

17 minutes ago, SP72 said:

Lasted very well with my 100% road use,  as did the Sebro discs

Maybe the 2500 had better initial bite, but the above qualities, plus the very low dust made them my fave.

Thanks. They sound pretty good. I am looking to track them a couple of times a year. 

[sopor]

a bit late to this party, as I am to most...

my tips on brake dust:

1. the dust from new pads seems more prone to sticking to wheels - perhaps there's still glue within the durst particles as opposed to just pad material?

2. waxing the wheels helps keep dust from sticking and allows easy removal with just a wet cloth.

[Busybee]

Spoke to Alan at questmead today @Von Twinzig. He recommends Brembo sport pads. Cheaper the ferrodo, porter field, Pagid etc and he says are very good. Used in touring cars by several of his customers. Low dust, great bite. Id never heard of them (no surprise really). 

[Von Twinzig]

6 minutes ago, Busybee said:

Spoke to Alan at questmead today @Von Twinzig. He recommends Brembo sport pads. Cheaper the ferrodo, porter field, Pagid etc and he says are very good. Used in touring cars by several of his customers. Low dust, great bite. Id never heard of them (no surprise really). 

Listen to the man. He’s forgotten more than the rest of us will ever know about friction materials.

VT

[Type911]

Brembo Sport HP are great, made by Textar I believe, very good feedback by all my customers who have tried them. We list the all BTW

[Busybee]

Cool. I kinda imagined something more exotic with mega stopping power. 

[Richard Bernau]

I would want to know the specs of those Brembo Sport HP pads and what they compete with.  I thought they were a fast road pad (looking at brembo.com), in which case they are no better than 2500s and possibly worse.  I can understand Alans rec given you likely described mainly fast road use with a couple of track days and its a light car with biggish brakes.  However, I would look at this from the other POV.  I would ask what is best for the track and tolerable for the road?  With criteria that it has to be not deadly when cold, not crazy noisy and not stupid dust (your tolerances may vary).  There is nothing more scary than a downhill hairpin bend and a slightly soft or sluggish brake pedal and no run off.  If I have that all wrong and you are happy with the priorities the other way round, then I defer to Alan.

Having used stock, Pagid Blue, Porterfield R4, Mintex 1144 & 1155, DS2500 and PFC97s in that car, I would venture I have a moderate understanding of how they all work - which is why I am trying to help.  Add Pagid Orange and the CLs I have recently used (930 and 987) and I have a couple of other data points.  FWIW, I would run a modern PFC compound in the front for track & alps and swap in road pad for the road.  Depending what you have in the rear, just leave them alone.  Its a 30-45 min job to swap front pads.  $0.02

[Busybee]

Thanks @Richard Bernau. Nothing like hearing it from experience in that car. And I think you're right. Alan likely thinks I'm looking for a fairly basic level motorsport pad. I mentioned the DS2500 I had and he said the Brembo Sports were better. In all respects. But reading up on them, they are a road approved pad with what I've been told is a +/-15 OEM rating. So could in all honesty be worse than OEM but likely to be marginally better in terms of friction/heat etc. 

I've taken the plunge and Matt has ordered me a set of drilled front disks (Zimmerman I think).

Also after speaking to PFC (really helpful by the way), I've ordered their 08 Compound pads. Kinder to discs and will last around 30% longer than their 11 compound. Hoping for great things.

The PFC UK Distributor price, £220+VAT. They suggested calling one of their resellers Co-Ord Sport. They knocked 10% off. But around 2 weeks as coming from the states. I then thought I'd check D911 (just out of interest really as the chap at PFC mentioned them). £125! Called and they had one set in stock. Offered a bit more discount so £120+VAT. Kerching. 

Callipers are now being blasted and Brembo seal set on order. Should have them late next week ready to get the car back on the road with shiny stoppers.

Bedding in. Any advice peeps? 

[Richard Bernau]

PFC will have a bedding in process specified.  Its normally something like 6x 60mph-20mph, drive and don't touch the brakes and cool a bit, then 6x 80mph-20mph, then fully cool while driving and don't touch them, park up till fully cold.   Given we don't have handy personal race tracks, its often a case of do what you can on the public highway in a safe way.  If you can get multiple medium stops, cool then multiple hard stops and then cool and put it away, you are going to be pretty close.

[Busybee]

27 minutes ago, Richard Bernau said:

PFC will have a bedding in process specified.  Its normally something like 6x 60mph-20mph, drive and don't touch the brakes and cool a bit, then 6x 80mph-20mph, then fully cool while driving and don't touch them, park up till fully cold.   Given we don't have handy personal race tracks, its often a case of do what you can on the public highway in a safe way.  If you can get multiple medium stops, cool then multiple hard stops and then cool and put it away, you are going to be pretty close.

Thanks. Found some details here https://pfcbrakes.com/Portals/0/DNNGalleryPro/uploads/2018/8/10/20180810_AMK_ AM Pad Bedding Procedure Rev 4.pdf and here https://www.gb-ent.com/pages/performance-friction-brake-pads-bedding-in-procedure

[jevvy]

5 light snubs*, light pedal application: 50mph – 30mph

5 medium snubs, medium pedal application: 70mph – 40mph

3 hard snubs, hard pedal application (no ABS activation): 100+mph – 30mph**

Cool down period – 5 mile run with very little brake (Do not sit at side of road with foot resting on brakes when hot, this is likely to damage the disc).

The bold underlined bit is really important, using the brakes to an absolute stop is the worst thing you can do while bedding them in, slow right down then roll to a stop without the pads sitting against the discs.

[mean in green]

3 hours ago, Busybee said:

I then thought I'd check D911 (just out of interest really as the chap at PFC mentioned them). £125! Called and they had one set in stock. Offered a bit more discount so £120+VAT. Kerching. 

Seems good. See what turns up, hopefully will fit a 911!

[Von Twinzig]

3 hours ago, Busybee said:

Thanks @Richard Bernau. Nothing like hearing it from experience in that car. And I think you're right. Alan likely thinks I'm looking for a fairly basic level motorsport pad. 

BB,  A couple of things. Track days are a basic level of motorsport, as they are both untimed and non-competitive. Competitive motorsport is on another level.

I’ve pax’d with RB on track, driven behind him both on track and on the road including mountain twisty’s, and nobody I know drives an IB as fast and brakes as hard - though Jevvy come pretty close. I don’t know your driving style, but I’ll wager it’ll be a fair bit off RB’s. You need to have a pad that suits your driving style and driving mix (street vs track) not his. The car is the car. The brakes are basically what I had on the 964, which I didn’t put on the track so I didn’t run PFC’s because they weren’t necessary. Do keep an open mind and run a pad that suits your style and mix of driving not somebody else’s. Just my 2 cents.

VT

[Busybee]

2 hours ago, jevvy said:

5 light snubs*, light pedal application: 50mph – 30mph

5 medium snubs, medium pedal application: 70mph – 40mph

3 hard snubs, hard pedal application (no ABS activation): 100+mph – 30mph**

Cool down period – 5 mile run with very little brake (Do not sit at side of road with foot resting on brakes when hot, this is likely to damage the disc).

The bold underlined bit is really important, using the brakes to an absolute stop is the worst thing you can do while bedding them in, slow right down then roll to a stop without the pads sitting against the discs.

Thanks Jev. I'll be following it to the letter. No stopping with the brakes. God help the garage door! 

1 hour ago, mean in green said:

Seems good. See what turns up, hopefully will fit a 911!

Lol I know what you mean. Arriving tomoz. Probably get an exhaust! lol 

1 hour ago, Von Twinzig said:

BB,  A couple of things. Track days are a basic level of motorsport, as they are both untimed and non-competitive. Competitive motorsport is on another level.

I’ve pax’d with RB on track, driven behind him both on track and on the road including mountain twisty’s, and nobody I know drives an IB as fast and brakes as hard - though Jevvy come pretty close. I don’t know your driving style, but I’ll wager it’ll be a fair bit off RB’s. You need to have a pad that suits your driving style and driving mix (street vs track) not his. The car is the car. The brakes are basically what I had on the 964, which I didn’t put on the track so I didn’t run PFC’s because they weren’t necessary. Do keep an open mind and run a pad that suits your style and mix of driving not somebody else’s. Just my 2 cents.

VT

Thanks VT. You're most likely very right about our TrackMeister being much quicker. Still want the best bite for my buck and on a track day, things get pretty hot for me so I must be at least trying. Does it make any difference who's driving with regards brakes? Yes some will be harder on the brakes but bite is bite at sensible velocities and levels of enthusiasm?