mark bevan Posted October 28, 2013 Author Share Posted October 28, 2013 Think what Alex's is trying to say is you need to be sure that everything is in there. Don't think it matters about the drying time on the case sealant as I can recall the loctite that you use is anaerobic so won't set unless it is free of O2. I had concerns about the the case through bolts etc But now that I've assisted in doing one I think I would be far more confident to do it myself next time. Not sure about the timing mind,,, Timing is hard - fixing the dial gauge secure enough is difficult with most parts being non-magnetic and having to torque the cams so high while keeping the correct position. Should be easier this time with this set-up - rather than this, older type set up - The Dempsey book says you have 45mins to complete all the final torque work from mating the cases. This being the first time doing it, it took me 75mins by time I had re-checked the torque on every bolt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark bevan Posted October 28, 2013 Author Share Posted October 28, 2013 Congratulations Mark, I bottled out of sealing the case halves as you only get one shot at it as you now very well know! Why no photo of the heads BTW? Here's the heads. Only gripe is - all the top studs had to be removed to skim the heads. The small ones must have come out easy as they were OK to re-use. Some of the threads were knackered on the longer 66mm studs though and I have had to buy some new ones from Porsche and pay time for them to be removed. If I had known they needed removing, I would have removed them myself. I should have asked - will do next time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatkenny Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 Hi Mark Loving this thread so far and detailed photos keep up the good work. As a newby to all this with an engineering back ground and a few year playing with various engines ! Is this engine that much harder to work on ? Your making it look all to easy . Wish I could of sat in on it to get some experience cheers Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark bevan Posted October 29, 2013 Author Share Posted October 29, 2013 Progress today; Fitted the pistons & cylinders. I have had to use two 0.25mm base gaskets to match the amount removed from the heads when they were skimmed at Mike B's. Looked in my gasket set (purchased from Porsche) for the replacement circlips and guess what - they don't include them either. More justification not to buy from them again, unless your desperate! Luckily I have some spare - but still missing 2 so had to order some. I can still carry on with the heads on one side on Friday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark bevan Posted October 31, 2013 Author Share Posted October 31, 2013 Just carried out the deck height check on cylinders 1 & 4. Even with 2 X 0,25mm copper base gaskets it comes out at 1.0mm on both cylinders. The good book says you need a gap of 1.3mm. No engineering work has been carried out in the case, just replacement of the crank and big end shells - standard/standard, or to the rods. I wish I had done this check before I removed the cylinders during the teardown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryH Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Even with 2 X 0,25mm copper base gaskets it comes out at 1.0mm on both cylinders. The good book says you need a gap of 1.3mm. Oh that's bad news Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALEX P Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 I may be completely wrong but double check that 1.3mm from another source. I don't know why but I thought that 1mm was the min. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark bevan Posted October 31, 2013 Author Share Posted October 31, 2013 I may be completely wrong but double check that 1.3mm from another source. I don't know why but I thought that 1mm was the min. I phoned Mike Bainbridge today but there was no answer. I'll try again tomorrow. If no answer again I'll try Tuthill's. I've stripped off the cylinders and ordered a set of 0.5mm base gaskets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveuxb Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 (edited) Hi Mark, Took the liberty of asking Russell about your problem. He says porsche didn't actually have a spec for table heights as they were machined to spec during the fabrication process but you do need base gaskets once you've machined the heads. They come in two sizes. 0.25 and 0.5 of a mm. You cannot double them up so apparently you will need to fit 0.5 mm base gaskets. They must go in dry with no sealant etc. You didn't chance the rods,? Machine the case? Change the cams? And the bearings are all standard. If everything is standard you will have no problem as it came out that way. You will need to check the thickness of the heads( ie top to base ). are they all uniform as this will create a bow it the cam carrier if they are not. Hope this helps. Ps apparently you need to stamp the heads to record the machining. Edited November 1, 2013 by daveuxb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark bevan Posted November 1, 2013 Author Share Posted November 1, 2013 Hi Mark, Took the liberty of asking Russell about your problem. He says porsche didn't actually have a spec for table heights as they were machined to spec during the fabrication process but you do need base gaskets once you've machined the heads. They come in two sizes. 0.25 and 0.5 of a mm. You cannot double them up so apparently you will need to fit 0.5 mm base gaskets. They must go in dry with no sealant etc. You didn't chance the rods,? Machine the case? Change the cams? And the bearings are all standard. If everything is standard you will have no problem as it came out that way. You will need to check the thickness of the heads( ie top to base ). are they all uniform as this will create a bow it the cam carrier if they are not. Hope this helps. Ps apparently you need to stamp the heads to record the machining. Thanks for the advice Daveuxb. The only machining on the whole rebuild has been to remove 12Th off all six of the heads - (just checked and it has not been stamped on the heads by the machinist). No Machining has been done in the case and the rods are being re-used with no work to the little ends. I was told to use a 0.5mm base gasket to compensate for the 12Th removed from the heads. I will collect them tomorrow. I will re-assemble using the 0.5mm gaskets and leave it at that. All will be reviled when I do the piston/valve check when the engine is all put back together. If I can't get the clearance between them then it's teardown time again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark bevan Posted November 3, 2013 Author Share Posted November 3, 2013 Hi Mark Loving this thread so far and detailed photos keep up the good work. As a newby to all this with an engineering back ground and a few year playing with various engines ! Is this engine that much harder to work on ? Your making it look all to easy . Wish I could of sat in on it to get some experience cheers Andy You can pay a visit any time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark bevan Posted November 3, 2013 Author Share Posted November 3, 2013 Warmed-up installing the new head studs. Then installed the pistons/cylinders with the correct 0.5mm copper base gasket fitted. I made sure the oil ring is positioned at the top of the piston and the compression rings 180 deg. opposed to each other around the piston. All the rings were marked with "top" so installing them correctly is made simple. Need to clean the oil out of the cylinders now so the new rings bed-in properly. Then on with the heads and camshaft housings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark bevan Posted November 3, 2013 Author Share Posted November 3, 2013 Heads installed & ready for the cam housings, though I need to sort some of the tinware before I fit the cam housings and oil return tubes. All that's it for today - sneck lifter time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Gander Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 Hi Mark, Have just opened the iPad to read your rebuild thread. You mention that you are sure the piston oil control ring fits on top? Without checking my facts and maybe I'm living in the past!, but I always understood that the oil control ring is on the bottom of the piston? In saying that, I've never built a Porsche engine so maybe I'm talking rubbish. Regards, David. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Gander Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 I've just re-read your thread and realised to late that you were talking about the oil control ring GAP being uppermost i.e. On the top side of the piston skirt (not the top of the piston!) Silly me, my apologies. Regards, David. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark bevan Posted November 8, 2013 Author Share Posted November 8, 2013 Finally sorted the engine tinware with a thick coat of two pack I had left over from the chassis touch-up from last year. Looking to get it fitted tomorrow along with the cam housings - need to find the nuts though got the barrel nuts, and get everything torqued up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark bevan Posted November 10, 2013 Author Share Posted November 10, 2013 Engine tinware is in along with the cam housings. I did not have to leave out the chain housing gasket, even though the heads had 12Th removed. Set the timing using TDC on cylinder No1 with the intake rocker installed with 1.0mm overlap. Will check over the work today, inc the valve clearance and cam timing before installing the tensioners and checking the piston/valve clearances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALEX P Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Steaming ahead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveuxb Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Not sure if its in your ref mate, but on a 964 engine there were some shims behind the cams to align the chains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark bevan Posted November 10, 2013 Author Share Posted November 10, 2013 Steaming ahead. Just finished the cam timing. Started checking the piston/valve clearance when my concentration went adrift and sneck lifter took over so it's off down the pub. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark bevan Posted November 10, 2013 Author Share Posted November 10, 2013 Not sure if its in your ref mate, but on a 964 engine there were some shims behind the cams to align the chains. Yes - there's a thick shim with a bevel that faces the cams and some thin shims. It's all gone back in as it came out. Thanks for the post. Installed the rockers to No 1 & 4 inlet and exhaust valves ready for the measurements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R2D2 Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 Good worrk Mark, all wil be well. Was not able to get you a pair of 964 cams - sorry mate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark bevan Posted November 11, 2013 Author Share Posted November 11, 2013 Good worrk Mark, all wil be well. Was not able to get you a pair of 964 cams - sorry mate Just been over to the garage to put my mind at rest - piston to valve measurement all OK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveuxb Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 Happy days mate. Bet you can't wait to flash it up now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark bevan Posted November 16, 2013 Author Share Posted November 16, 2013 No progress mid week due to paid work getting in the way! Looking at sealing up the engine tomorrow; Cam covers Carrera cam oil lines Rest of the rocker arms and valve adjustment Spark plugs & valve covers Oil cooler/sump plate ( new studs ready) & intermediate plate cover Roll on tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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