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Henry

964 transplant engine rebuild

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Not being a million miles from getting my Sc into a rolling shell again so its time to get my engine into some kind of running order .

 

Its a 1990 with the ally intakes .May sound daft but thats one of the reasons I bought it as I am not so keen on the look of the placcy ones . Since buying it I have now found out of course that the later ones are preferable , the plastic being lighter and more efficient but also being an early engine it hasnt had the head rings installed either.

 

I bought the engine back in November in a broken state as soon as I got it home I could'nt resist pulling it apart to find the cause of failure . Turned out to be a spun rod bearing completely siezed solid .

 

I then boxed it all up and let it sit in the corner until needed .

 

A few pics of the initial strip down previously shown in my SC rebuild thread .

 

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Spun bearing on rod end probably low on oil .

964%20engine%20tear%20down%20060_zpsymq0

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That was a few months ago , I have taken all the bits over to my brothers work shop to do the build , I just finished cedar cladding his shed /barn so squeezing in another week or two on the car . This week and a couple of days last week I have been cleaning up all the parts properly and seeing what is usable .

 

Cases occupied me for a day and a half!

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Heads were degreased before bead blasting .

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Removed valves and cleaned.

 

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Barrels and pistons ready to take to the machine shop for inspection .

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Cleaned up the rocker covers and tin ware now awaiting powder coat.

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Thought I had better check the pump in lite of bearing failure ,all seemed good smooth and no damage few! I made sure to reassemble rotors in same position,

 

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Back together.

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These are my cams , damage looks worse in pics ,the denial is wearing off however and I will probably have replace with something or other .

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I took a load of stuff to the machine shop today , heads barrels , my new 993 replacement crank, rods and pistons rockers . Fingers crossed everything checks out ok .

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Top work H

I'm back in the land of driving so might pop over in the 911 once I've done a service if your free ?

Cheers Kenny

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Head over if you

Like , looks a cracking day for a drive at the moment anyway .

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I am glad to report that bar checking and flushing the piston squirters and flushing out the cam tubes I have cleaned and scrubbed every item of the engine including all ancillaries and have to say its no small task! All items are now boxed and waiting for reassembly .

 

All being well I hope to start re assembly in a couple of weeks time ,I just have staightened out the roof on an old stone barn for a customer , just hope the job goes well using about 20 big ratchet straps and a 10 tonne winch , should do it if it goes to plan ,we will see .

 

Removed the head studs today ,went fairly well , I used the double nut method and all wound out reasonably well bar about three which required a bit of heat from my plumbers torch .

 

Cleaned out the threads with a slotted stud which worked really well and blew them clear with compressed air. Also wound out an oil pipe which was stuck in the case .

 

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All out.

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Decided to tackle the fan and housing . I had a 4mm plate cut to sit on the fan so I could get a descent grip with the puller without damaging the delicate fan , worked a treat .

 

Fan looking worse for ware , I paint stripped to make blasting easier .

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Getting a good grip .

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success.

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I later that evening read that you can get the fan off by winding in longer screws so they push off the alternator body . Now why didnt I think of that.

Fan ready for colour or something . Now what colour should I paint it.... :)

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I like the look of Alex's intakes so blinged mine up a bit . Nearly there but still a bit more going over .

Before strip down .SAM_2670_zpsvmbgadds.jpg

 

Blinged up a bit .SAM_2676_zpsroc33uxm.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Haha, nice one Henry - Shhhh, it also gives it an extra 3bhp ;)

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Looking good Henry. Great work

Thanks ,glad to get the studs out today after reading a few horror storries even my machine shop said they can be right b.. studs!

 

Haha, nice one Henry - Shhhh, it also gives it an extra 3bhp ;)

I hope so I looked part Afro caribean after a few hours on the polishing wheel , not that is a bad thing I should add probably an improvement!

Edited by Henry

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I didn't have you down as polishing Queen H

Looking good

What you up to next Thursday ?

The boys are meeting up if you need a lift let me know

Cheers Kenny

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I didn't have you down as polishing Queen H

Looking good

What you up to next Thursday ?

The boys are meeting up if you need a lift let me know

Cheers Kenny

Nothing wrong with the occasional polish .. , kind offer may just take you up I will pm you later . Cheers H

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Gathering all the bits needed ,nearly there just a few more things to arrive before assembly hopefully next week depending on time to get the crank etc balanced .

 

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Visited the machine shop today and picked up most of my bits , everything was ok which was a relief, as the wallet is definately starting to whimper !

 

My new 60,000 m second hand crank recieving a polish not really needed but wanted to be sure.

 

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That just leaves the little ends to be changed at the machine shop , should be done in a couple of days hopefully .

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Pasted the wrong image in previous post :doh2: This was my new crank being polished .

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I am using a 993 crank from a known 60,000 mile car ,this one being removed by the previous owner with a serious budget and replaced with a Gt3 crank as part of their build plan . I bought the crank rods and pistons as an assembly before stripping it down for checks ,polish and in the case of rods had new bushings fitted . I needed the rods and pistons as the 964 ones wont match as the Crank rod journals on the 993 are narrower and the little ends smaller so they wont fit the 964 pistons .

 

The two cranks for comparison , the 964 has bigger rod journals and a bit lighter but needs a heavy harmonic pulley , the 993 a bit heavier but no heavy pulley needed .

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The rods for comparison the one 964 one pictured here a lot chunkier and 80 g heavier !

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Overall I think I read somewhere there is around 0.8 kg saving of rotating mass using the 993 over the 964, Which I have been told makes for a more revvy engine so thats good :revs: . This was'nt planned for in any way so it will be interesting to see how it turns out , would be nice to have a zingy engine back in the Sc albeit with a bit more pep.

 

I transfered the gear and dizzy drive from the 64 crank to the 993 , not as straight forward as hoped. The gears went on ok with some heat but I could'nt get the circlip back on, fearing I had a burr or something stopping them seating fully I took them off again faced them with some 600 grit to make sure they were flat ,they were . Then measured the space available accuratley and found the circlip needed .2 mm removing to make it fit . Anyway the moral of this storey for me is to study the manual properley as that evening I read my B Anderson book again and discovered the circlips are available in three sizes !, had I known would have saved a lot of head scratching and time .

 

Removing .2 from circlip

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Cleaned the cases a bit more and checked/cleaned the piston squirters all were fine except one which was stuck open allowing compressed air, fluid through both ways . No matter how much brake cleaner put through it I couldnt get it to work tried wire ,pins eventually bit the bullet and replaced it .

 

Turned out to be an easy job , removed the burs where they are peened in place with a 4 mm bit just by rubbing against them, then drilled the top with a 5 mm bit to open it out slightly to allow the nozzel /jet piece to come out with the spring and then fished /blew the ball bearing out leaving just the tube left, then used a 4.2 mm drill right through, then a m5 tap , then a m5 cap head /bolt and some washers to winch out the squirter. They are made of soft alley so easy drilling with hand drill. a tolerance fit but not too tight .

 

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I applied a tiny amount of loctite retainer then drifted the new one back in ( £ 20 opc) , using the old one as the drift as they are soft .

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Finnished , used a punch to re peen back in , dont want this sucker flying out .

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t

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Hi H

Good to see more progress

In the pic of the crank being polished what is the black box with two arm coming out near his hand ?

I will pop in for a brew as soon as I'm fit

ATB Kenny

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Yeh , hope your sorted soon Kenny , have you had an op on the Achillies yet , walking ?

 

In the pic the crank is rotated on the grinding machine ,although it could be spun in any machine I guess , the machine in his hand is like a giant belt sander/finger file spinning the other way and is simply used manually and lifted between journals polishing them with a fine belt ,interestingly simple and good to see it done, previously thinking it was a more of a black art for some reason. Took all of 5 mins .

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Arr make sense now looks like an angle grinder bolted to black box with belt sander

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Arr make sense now looks like an angle grinder bolted to black box with belt sander

Yep thats exactly what it is , I nearly asked did you make that yourself ! but kept quiet . Plenty of years experience there.

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Checked the bearing clearances with Plastiguage, All seemed ok .

 

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Bit fiddley keeping the rod from moving when taking on and off but seemed to work well .

 

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ARP rod bolts used on final assembly to give a bit of over rev protection.

 

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Setting out all bits needed for next step , basically using the Wayn Dempsey engine rebuild book together with the Bentley technical data without guesswork book which seems to have most stuff covered so far.

 

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Installed the pump and new chains and checked everything was ok .

 

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After planning on using Loctite 574 as the main sealer , which I am sure would have been fine , I spent too much time on Pelecan and went for the 4 sealents below .

uter Case Halves: Threebond 1104 (now 1184)

Bearing Saddle Surfaces: Loctite 574

#8 Bearing (balancer end) O-Ring: Threebond 1211 (now 1215)

Case Thru Bolts: Dow Corning 111 on Green Viton O-Rings

Flywheel Seal: DRY

Balancer Seal: DRY

Intermediate Shaft Cover to Case: ThreeBond 1211 (now 1215)

Oil Breather Cover to Case: ThreeBond 1211 (now 1215)

Cylinders to Case: Curil K-2 or ThreeBond 1211 (now 1215)

Cam Towers to Cylinder Heads: Threebond 1104 (now 1184)

Cam Chain Housings to Case: Threebond 1104 (now 1184)

Cam Chain Housings to Cam Towers: Threebond 1104 (now 1184)

Cam Chain Housing Cover to Cam Chain Housing: Threebond 1104 (now 1184)

Gaskets: Thin coat of Loctite 574

 

I used the blue o rings for the through bolts which seemed fine and apparently are fit for purpose in 964 engines ,plenty of dow 55 o ring grease and they slipped in a treat ,least I hope they have !

 

Such was my concentration on the job in hand I forgot the sealent on the case pic .

 

Cases closed ,new nuts ,washers and the crank still turns so looking favaourable and a relief to get this job done , In fact it was reasonably easy , being organised seems to be the key,

 

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A bit of squidge .

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That was where I left things today ,could be a week or so before next push forward , we wil see.

 

 

 

 

 




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Nice work - it all looks spotlessly clean and well prepared :ani_clapping:

 

Did the original pistons and cylinders check out OK to re-use ?

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Excellent, progress and thanks for going into so much detail

Thanks Stephen , the devils in the detail as they say , The Wayne Demsey Modify and rebuild book should fill in most stuff that I have left out ,only covers to 89 which is a shame . That said these air cooled's are preety much basically the same with subtle improvemnts over the years.

 

Nice work - it all looks spotlessly clean and well prepared :ani_clapping:

 

Did the original pistons and cylinders check out OK to re-use ?

Cheers Matt , The cylinders are a sore point at the moment ! I thought they had been measured and ok . I may have looked at the wrong group size or something but after I gave them a quick bead blast and used scotch brite to deglaze them once the sooty ring of deposits around the tops of the cylinders were removed on a couple I could feel a ridge . So the long and short is that I am thinking of getting them replated and bought back to size at Langcourts .

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The cylinders are a sore point at the moment ! I thought they had been measured and ok . I may have looked at the wrong group size or something but after I gave them a quick bead blast and used scotch brite to deglaze them once the sooty ring of deposits around the tops of the cylinders were removed on a couple I could feel a ridge . So the long and short is that I am thinking of getting them replated and bought back to size at Langcourts .

 

Do you know what the measurements are running through the cylinder bore?

 

You normally take it 3 time at the top, middle & bottom. When they are brand new they measure up at 100.00mm dia (pretty much plum on) and through their life they wear so when they get to around 100.1mm they would benefit from re-coating or replacing.

 

If yours are the later 964 barrels with the sealing ring then they may be worth re-coating, if they are the earlier ones then I personally wouldn't bother, I'd look to replace them with a set of 993 barrels or at least a good set of late 964 barrels.

 

Have you looked into the cost of machining and re-coating the cylinders yet? I'm not 100% sure but I don't think you'll get much change out of £100 each to get it done properly.

 

Interested to hear how you get on with this. Good luck.

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Do you know what the measurements are running through the cylinder bore?

 

You normally take it 3 time at the top, middle & bottom. When they are brand new they measure up at 100.00mm dia (pretty much plum on) and through their life they wear so when they get to around 100.1mm they would benefit from re-coating or replacing.

 

If yours are the later 964 barrels with the sealing ring then they may be worth re-coating, if they are the earlier ones then I personally wouldn't bother, I'd look to replace them with a set of 993 barrels or at least a good set of late 964 barrels.

 

Have you looked into the cost of machining and re-coating the cylinders yet? I'm not 100% sure but I don't think you'll get much change out of £100 each to get it done properly.

 

Interested to hear how you get on with this. Good luck.

I haven't got the measurements to hand , they were measured 50 or so mm down from the top using the Bentley spec book , there is a slight ridge at the top on a couple and as I not using stepped rings perhaps they not even available is a bit risky to reuse .

In an ideal world a new set of pistons and cylinders but my pistons are very good so a bit reluctant to spend out , its a bit of a close call really ,also if I go for later new p/c which would be 993 then in for maching head hassles to. The alternative is to try and find second hand items but they would probably be near to the cost of having the cylinders refurbed and should be good as new leaving me to get on with the build in reasonably short time. I hear what you say about them being early cylinders without the flame ring but they should be OK . How are yours holding up btw, well I am hoping ! Cheers H

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Taking one measurement doesn't really tell you the whole story, I'd be tempted to take them to a local engine builder like Nick Fulljames at Redtek or Neil Bainbridge at BS Motorsports to get them properly checked before committing to the cost of re-coating or replacing. It shouldn't cost much or take long to get them measured & inspected properly & could save a whole world of pain later on.

 

993 barrels slot straight in so no machining required AFAIK. They can be bought for less than £500 from some breakers but pie in the sky if yours are ok.

 

My barrels were always half worn as you would probably expect for an old engine with unknown milage. If I was doing it again then I'd have bought a set of 993 cylinders, bored them out to 102mm and had them re-coated then bought 102mm JEs instead of my 100mm JEs and ended up with 3.8 slip fit but I was on a shoestring budget - and still am!!! :D

 

Cheers

 

P.s. It's still in the back of my mind to do this some day!

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They probably were measured in more than one place , I wasnt there at the time but I do Know and know the ability of two separate measurer's. They are a bit ovaled to be expected to a degree but having a slight step is a bit risky when not using stepped rings to overcome this problem.

 

I have spoken to Nick at Redtek not on this matter but regarding reusing my rockers on a new cams ,which he said should be fine if in good nick , he was very helpfull I might go and see him at some point .

 

Going 3.8 sounds a good plan but I do have good pistons , so would have to buy Je's around £ 6-7oo and tbh I think at 3.6 I will probably have more power than I realy need , but like you may be another day.

 

Looked on ebay for second hand items emailed steve strange about the set he has for around £465 they havent been measured so would have to drive to Copull and measure them before going that route . Thanks for all the sugestions much appeciated . H

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I decided in the end to replate my cylinders , it was easiest option tbh and was about a grand cheaper than the next which was the 3.8 whilst I liked the idea but am a bit worried about my geabox survival chances if I up power even more . A project for another day especially if my heads leak!

 

Lancourt offer a very quick and efficient turnaround of just over a week , although my used set of pistons showed very little wear they still matched each piston to each barrel .

They look like new and the dreaded wear lip has gone so hoping to fit next week .

 

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