Tp81 Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 Hi I am new here, spent more time on DDK and 911UK. I have owned a few 993's a 911T and I am in the middle of a long term restoration on a 73 911E I have been looking at 1980 930 Turbo and have driven the car a few times, lovely car and looks incredible. This is a very open question and potentially difficult to answer with out more detail, however, I am curious what is seen to be the best option for an engine upgrade / improvement if even necessary at all. I have read a few reports on changes to the turbo and the addition of a motec ecu. Does anyone have a strong view on the best way to go or the best place to send the engine for this type of work if recommended. I am trying to factor in costs and get an idea of budget before I jump in. Thanks Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jevvy Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 Have you had a dig through the turbo section on here yet? Well worth a skim through a few threads like this: http://www.impactbumpers.com/forum/index.php?/topic/22007-tuning-the-turbo/ And this: http://www.impactbumpers.com/forum/index.php?/topic/23772-turbo-upgrades-for-a-beginner/ More here: http://www.impactbumpers.com/forum/index.php?/forum/7-turbo/?prune_day=100&sort_by=Z-A&sort_key=last_post&topicfilter=all As you will find there are various levels of tune that require different approaches so its a case of picking where you want to be power wise then joining the dots to get there. For example CIS has a power ceiling so if you want be be above that level then budget for EFI, if your power requirements are more conservative then you can get there without the additional cost and hassle of converting to EFI and stick to bolt-on mods. I'd get a good base level of understanding then start talking to tuners and pick the one that floats your boat and gives you confidence they can carry out the work to a standard you would be happy with. Look forward to hearing more about your plans if you decide to buy and mod the 930. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tp81 Posted October 18, 2016 Author Share Posted October 18, 2016 Thanks for the links Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivieraBob Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 Tom, you've got to promise to bring your brilliant photography over with you from the 993 forum! Hope the proposed purchase works out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tp81 Posted October 18, 2016 Author Share Posted October 18, 2016 Thanks RB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tp81 Posted October 18, 2016 Author Share Posted October 18, 2016 http://www.bsmotorsport.co.uk/case-studies/Porsche-3.3-Turbo-onto-EFI/885.htm This looks good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Miller Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 Depends what you want out of it, do you actually want more power or do you want to make it more drivable? My 930 engine is to the following spec and make for a very rapid car (albeit the car weighs in at 1160kg) with reasonable torque from low revs and noticeable boost building from 2500 Standard internals and injection. SC cams Equal length headers K27/29 turbo 1 bar boost spring Tial waste gate Retrofit CDI+ ignition Twin exit exhaust. 5 speed G50 gearbox from a 3.2 Carrera with a turbo 5th gear and Quaife LSD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tp81 Posted October 18, 2016 Author Share Posted October 18, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tp81 Posted October 18, 2016 Author Share Posted October 18, 2016 Jon, Thanks nice to have a list of what you have added. In all honesty I am not exactly sure, I have only driven the car once and I am on a fact finding mission at the moment to have information and ideas in my head. Ultimately I would prefer drive characteristics over straight power, a nice blend of both. The car was incredible to drive but it fell off a cliff changing up the gears if I wasn't wringing its neck. I loved the shove from the turbo and how obvious it was but equally would want the power to be more linear once I had decided I was pressing on. I am keen on experiences and views, so thanks for posting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Gander Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 Hi Tom, I'm a hot-rodder at heart and have modified quite a few motors over the years, including an Aston Martin DB4! Now getting on a bit in years I have hopefully developed a more refined taste? I presently run a 1984 3.3 Turbo with the only mods being an uprated CDI unit from Jonny (look it up on here, fantastic unit), and sports rear shock absorbers plus a K27 turbo. I am of the opinion that one should be very carefull about what modifications that are carried out as you can very easily lose the very spirit of what the car was about when you started! That's fine if that was your aim, back-dating etc. Power is not the be and end all, it's the over-all ambience and tactile driving experience. My 1947 MG TC had a magic gearbox with a gear change just like a rifle bolt, but some people replaced it with a Ford 2000E box:- by far a better box with better ratio's etc....but no longer an MG experience. I happen to like the turbo-lag of my car, and would not want to engineer it out. Why, I could buy a more modern twin turbo'd bolide without the 'wait-for-the-kick' in the back, but that would detract from what the era of what the the '84 Turbo was all about. I guess it's horses for courses and one's personal preferences; wouldn't it be great if we all could be like Jay Leno and have dozens of vehicles to suit all whims and driving experiences? There is so much hype attached to classic cars that it overshadows reality. I had a '72 2.4 S that was a pleasant car, but a bit like a tuned VW Beetle! Wandered around in any wind at all, and went reasonably well if one kept the revs. up, but in real everyday driving conditions, nothing special....I far prefer my Turbo to drive. Yet every article you read on 2.4 S or the God-like 2.7RS, they wax lyrical and almost hyper-ventilate with ecstasy..........the hype exceeds the actual reality......the 2.4 S handled so bad that they had to put godamn weights behind the front bumpers! My only advice in conclusion is do what you want to do to achieve from your chosen car the driving experience that you want.....just do not lose the spirit!.......a bit like sex, the mechanics of it are fairly simple, are but a small bit of the whole experience! Regards, David. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slope330 Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 Tom, i ve got 330bhp on my flattie , standard ex factory..........from standard, factory provided bigger intercooler,bigger turbo 'sports exhaust ' had the opportunity to replace cams so we used from 964 .............DONT make the mistake of comparing it to ur recent 993 turbo!! only 4 speed box but red line in lower gears ,no problem does nt run out of steam ..........could be the one u ve tried isa bit iffy ? ps passed on the other little local matter , bought genuine john willhoit ,California car.......appreciated ur input Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Rummy Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 Echo David's very good post. My 88 is standard apart from a fabspeed dual outlet exhaust and spacers on front and back wheels and lowered, all three mods could be classed as aesthetic mods I guess. I've always felt the turbo in std form looks a little over arched, but I guess it's a modern sensibility to have the wheels level with the arches, either way I prefer the look. I haven't modified the engine for the same reasons David lists; I love the car because it's the perfect blend for me of modern and classic, but each to their own. If you want mega point and squirt power don't buy a 930, if you want the smells, sounds and feel of a car from the 70s and 80s and don't mind lag, and squeaks and rattles them any of the ibs will suit you. The only engine mods I would consider would be an uprated turbo and maybe a set of cams. Good luck with whichever way you chose, they are great cars in any form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
World Citizen Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 (edited) Welcome Tom and hope you really enjoy owning a 930 I bought mine for the old school turbo lag oh $hit there is a corner feeling packaged under a sumptuous wide body shape. I like the fact that to get some enjoyment from driving requires quite a bit of effort and respect, especially when driving in the mountains. If I wanted a quick car with all the mod cons like climate control, power steering and ABS I'd have bought a new Audi estate Edited October 19, 2016 by World Citizen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flatsix777 Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 They're very quick cars in the right circumstances but a standard 4 speed 930 does fall off boost through the gears in the real works and does lack urge at low rpm relative to a n/a IB. This is their character - I like it but I can understand why others don't. The problem is that they don't make proper boost until almost 4000rpm and make max power at 5500. By 6000 power falls away and it's doesn't feel right, or quick, hanging on to the redline. At 6000 in 1st you only see around 3800 shifting to second, right on the boost threshold. Same second to third, although it's not so noticeable as you're doing almost 120mph so are worrying about avoiding things. So you can keep the turbo alive but you won't manage it in normal situations and it won't feel comfortable. It's a long way of saying that a standard 4 speed 930 benefits from being made more driveable by lowering boost threshold, moving power up the rpm curve and improving low end response. A bigger intercooler, less restrictive exhaust, more efficient turbo, SC cams & more aggressive ignition all help here, a lot. You get quite a bit more power too even with standard boost. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tp81 Posted October 19, 2016 Author Share Posted October 19, 2016 I really appreciate all the input. The car is a low mileage example that hasn't been cherished cosmetically, I can do this and enjoy the small details. I believe that the engine has never wanted for anything and has been maintain when the car was being used. Reading the messages and speaking to others I honestly think the best option for now is to get it looking absolutely perfect and ensure that the std set up is as it was leaving the factory. If I chose at a later date to modify or tweak things then there are obviously a few options. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axel Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 I bought a pig in a blanket from the US, Euro 930 shell. Decided to swap a G50 in, Motec M600 , GT35 Garrett turbo, schrick cams, big custom intercooler. Should be around 500-520 on the judd dyno, gonna be fun. gonna make it look like a 934 too, DP motorsports riveted fenders etc. good luck with your project mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Gander Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 Sounds as if you wil need a pilots licence for this Axel! Regards, David. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axel Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 Im so gonna end up in a hedge aint I... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddevil Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 Is the 930 your yellow car with the 3.0 in it Axel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axel Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 yes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tp81 Posted January 21, 2017 Author Share Posted January 21, 2017 So far wheels off, coming back satin black, oil lines clamped rather than tie wrapped, rust off suspension components, seats out to have the bolsters fixed retaining the existing seat covers. Calipers off to be refreshed.....these have been rebuilt in recent time so just need freshened up. Engine will be coming out and all hoses pipes etc to be replaced. New air conditioning compressor sourced and new wheel purchased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Rummy Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 Good progress - and good idea to get it sorted - there is a world of difference between standard 930s depending upon whether they are sorted or not; a neglected turbo is not a nice thing to drive; a good one is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revo Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 Having read a previous post and liking the way your car looks what size wheel spacers have you put on your car Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Rummy Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 Thanks revo - it was awhile back now, but I think 22 mm on the back and less on the front - can't be sure, but now I wanted more on the front - I once had a pair of 8 inch Fuchs and they filled the front around the same as the spacers do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tp81 Posted January 23, 2017 Author Share Posted January 23, 2017 I am all for patina.........but hate dirt! Why do people do these things, looks like a looky likely badge, pleased Porsche is spelled correctly. First coat then more tomorrow and then leather polished, should look better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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