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Flat 6

Specialist dealer sold my car but won't give me proceeds

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OK folks, I'm putting this up here after nearly 3 months of waiting to be paid.

At this stage I'm not going to name and shame, although I have told the dealer in question he's lucky I haven't done so yet. 

The dealer in question did a good job of selling my car on commission back in mid July, that is he got a good price which meant a good sum to me and a healthy commission for him. We have a formal contract which said that he would pay me over the agreed sum minus commission and costs within 14 days.  I went on holiday until end of July expecting the cash to arrive in my account in late July as agreed. 

Alarm bells started ringing when no money was received.  So I contacted the dealer. He said there was a problem with the car and he didn't want to give me the proceeds of the sale until that problem was sorted or just in case the customer asked for his money back. The problem was an oil leak. The customer had told him about the leak on 10th July and he'd told me. He'd said he would probably send a truck, bring the car back and see what the issue was. So, having heard nothing else, I had expected the issue to have been sorted by end July. The dealer had done an oil change and turned the sump plate in early July before the car was sold so I expected it to be something to do with that. Turned out it was but had the dealer even tried to look at the car in July?..not at all. So I started to wonder maybe if this was a useful tactic to delay payment to me. I started to press him harder.  On 31st July the dealer had someone local to the buyer look at the car and sort the leak...Guess what, leaking from sump plate. So around 7th August dealer concedes that the customer is happy and he will pay me.

The weeks go on. What follows is a long list of broken promises to pay, interspersed with claims of family illness and that generally cashflow is slow. I'm a reasonable guy, I stay patient but make it clear how unhappy I am and that he needs to make the payment to avoid legal action and reputational damage. He finally sends me £5k at the beginning of October. Progress I think..but then he goes quiet again. So I go over and see him (from N.Ireland..and he's in England ). He is ultra apologetic and tells me he's sold a car and will pay me w/c 8th October. Nothing. So again I call and message. Nothing still.

So that's where we are. All here will know the price of a freshly restored '78 SC. Take a few grand off for commission and you know the sum owed here. It's a fair chunk of money.

So, what do I do. Legal action? Name and shame on here? I'd have thought the guy would be so concerned about his reputation that he'd want to avoid any of this. And he does have a good reputation to maintain... 

I've thought long and hard about even putting this out on the forums but I've run out of patience. I know the guy at least follows the forums so maybe the threat of name and shame will encourage him to pay me what I'm owed...

If not I think it is in the interests of all Porsche owners to know what kind of guy this is and be able to avoid a similar situation. Mods may disagree of course...

Let me know your thoughts Pls.

Allen.

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A letter from your solicitors, straight away, no messing.  Was there any selling contract between you and the dealer?

How can there be cash flow issues? He takes his cut the rest is yours end of story.

This isn't the outfit in Worcester who We don't mentioned?

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Don't name and shame....yet.

Absolutely legal action, don't wait any longer.

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I agree with the comments above. I’d get a solicitors letter out ASAP (or offer him a deadline after which legal proceeding would commence and costs added). My concern for you is he goes bust. If that’s a case, recovering money is neigh on impossible. 

Don't see a problem with naming the dealer if he’s not paying you your due. 2 or 3 months is a long time to get paid and he’s obviously having cash flow problems and using your money to plug gaps. 

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4 minutes ago, Busybee said:

Don't see a problem with naming the dealer

There considered approach is to not do that on the forum. If you really want to know who it is, feel free to PM the OP.

Flat 6, you have the patience of a saint. I agree on the cashflow comment (unless that cash has already been swallowed up solving some other cashflow issue that the dealer has - lets hope not). Legal advice now I think. Fingers crossed you get this sorted quick.

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9 minutes ago, Lesworth said:

There considered approach is to not do that on the forum. If you really want to know who it is, feel free to PM the OP.

Why is that? I’ve seen that a few times on here - not naming dealers, specialists etc. after shoddy work/service. If that’s the case, it’s not really helping everyone else on here? Might save another forum member from going through the same grief?

Think I’d give him a deadline or tell him honestly you’ll be taking legal action (and telling your forum friends about the service you’ve received) @Flat 6 if the money is not received by that date. Bet he’ll shuffle some stuff about and get you off his back. 

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5 minutes ago, Busybee said:

Why is that? I’ve seen that a few times on here - not naming dealers, specialists etc. after shoddy work/service. If that’s the case, it’s not really helping everyone else on here? Might save another forum member from going through the same grief?

Think it boils down to legal action that could be taken against the forum, aka the Sheriff on grounds of Slander etc.  By not allowing naming + shaming, it removes all legal risk from the forum.

I agree with what has been said, get Solicitors involved.  Garage has had plenty of opportunity to respond and are dragging their heels.  Your cash flow needs to be bumped up in priority within their business.  Hope you get resolved asap

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The other approach would be to go to the county court. Once you have an order against the dealer it will show on their record and make life (more ) difficult for them. Also you may be able to go after the new owner if there is a charge placed on the car itself. The time for niceties is long gone. 

You really need to get some legal advice.

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19 minutes ago, Sidewaysfun said:

Think it boils down to legal action that could be taken against the forum, aka the Sheriff on grounds of Slander etc.  By not allowing naming + shaming, it removes all legal risk from the forum.

Fair enough (but if it’s factual.....)

From personal experience, the courts are a long winded, expensive and often fruitless approach. We once chased a guy in Scotland for 6 months over a 2.5k debt. Despite paying for numerous things via the courts including letters, judgements against him etc, the only people that benefitted from the process was the solicitor and the courts. He’d simply done a flit. Cost us an additional £500 in fees and nothing to show for it at all.

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Also anything mailed make sure it's recorded delivery/sig required.

 

I think the key thing now, whichever direction you decide to take, is to act fast.  He's holding back payment for some reason, which could mean bankruptcy around the corner and you don't want that to happen as you'll end up with b*gger all of not much.

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38 minutes ago, Busybee said:

 

 

Fair enough (but if it’s factual.....)

From personal experience, the courts are a long winded, expensive and often fruitless approach. We once chased a guy in Scotland for 6 months over a 2.5k debt. Despite paying for numerous things via the courts including letters, judgements against him etc, the only people that benefitted from the process was the solicitor and the courts. He’d simply done a flit. Cost us an additional £500 in fees and nothing to show for it at all.

I know some people 😉 they get results fast, wouldn't use them as it might cost you more than your car.

Allen, really hope this is resolved quickly, sounds like the dealer has a cash flow shortage and using your money to tide him over

Personally I would not give him a deadline, he's had long enough

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3 minutes ago, World Citizen said:

I know some people 😉 they get results fast, wouldn't use them as it might cost you more than your car.

Lol it did cross my mind. 😜 Was business rather than car related so I chalked it up to experience, changed the way we do business and it’s paid dividends in less stress WC. 

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Our credit control is one ‘phone call on due date if unpaid. After that it’s straight to legal debt recovery, which usually results in a payment and the company is then on our blacklist and prepayment required going forwards.

Occasionally this approach doesn’t work, but then not much would have done in those examples i.e. rotten to the core / no intention of paying / serial offender. As hard as it is to accept initially when that happens you just have to write it off, mentally as much as financially.

 

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Go legal,  an official letter from a solicitor requesting settled within 14 days or papers will be lodged at the county court should do the trick.

Cost are roughly £400 but worth it in the scheme of things.

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All,

Thanks for solid advice. By way of a general update, the problem dealer has seen this thread, understands the likely next steps and promises payment. I will of course keep you informed. Legal practice has been briefed and awaits instruction should that be necessary.

Al.

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7 minutes ago, Flat 6 said:

All,

Thanks for solid advice. By way of a general update, the problem dealer has seen this thread, understands the likely next steps and promises payment. I will of course keep you informed. Legal practice has been briefed and awaits instruction should that be necessary.

Al.

Good luck Al, fingers crossed you get a result asap.

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Dealer - sort it out. Last thing you want is the guys who buy, sell and talk these cars on here thinking you're dodgy. 

Good luck Al. 

4 minutes ago, jevvy said:

Good luck Al, fingers crossed you get a result asap.

By the way Jev, can't message you. Mailbox full? 

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3 minutes ago, Busybee said:

By the way Jev, can't message you. Mailbox full? 

Probably is, I've sent you a mail instead ;)

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5 hours ago, Busybee said:

Why is that?

In essence, it boils down to the fact that this forum belongs to the Sheriff and therefore its his (sensible and well considered for the most part) rules that we must all play by. 😉

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As VT says - you haven't received payment for your car so it's still yours unless there's some silly contract exclusion. I would suspect that the 'buyer' has a criminal case against the dealer.

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Have never looked into this in any detail but surely this is a question of title.  You didn't sell the vehicle to the dealer surely you just entered into a commission based contract conditional upon dealer brokering sale on your behalf to a third party.  Surely title passes directly from you to third party on receipt of agreed sum?   Would suggest that ultimately risk is with buyer?

I think with car auctions the auction houses guarantee, as part of buyers & sellers fee, safe title to buyer and insure accordingly - presumably to protect in the event that a sale is brokered where title is not as it seems AND to protect seller from claim in the event that sale proceeds are not realisable, i.e. fraudulent payment from buyer, auction house itself is in financial difficulty.

I think sequence of payments might be important in these circumstances - dont wait, get some basic advice, find out where car is!

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3 hours ago, Flat 6 said:

All,

Thanks for solid advice. By way of a general update, the problem dealer has seen this thread, understands the likely next steps and promises payment. I will of course keep you informed. Legal practice has been briefed and awaits instruction should that be necessary.

Al.

You’re clearly extraordinarily patient. The trouble is that the dross who pull these stunts aren’t playing by the same rules that most of the rest of us do.

Start the debt recovery immediately - today - with the added interest charges and supplementary invoice cost. If not paid then straight to court.

 

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