Help me choose a new system....

[Busybee]

@SP72, didn’t you use Eisenmans on your 3.2 or was that after you went bigger? 

[786]

Anyone make a system like this for a 3.2?

[Dr Rock]

1 hour ago, Chris_911 said:

Anyone recently fitted SSIs to their 3.2 care to comment on how they feel about the performance of them?

I love mine. Performance wise: no idea on the change as they went on when the engine was rebuilt. GCR flared the flanges to match the exhaust ports.

[SP72]

1 hour ago, Chris_911 said:

So I remain undecided.

Anyone recently fitted SSIs to their 3.2 care to comment on how they feel about the performance of them?

I think SSIs are perfect for road cars - yes you lose a smidgeon off the top end in my experience, But you gain in the midrange where you want it most.

Job jobbed.

22 minutes ago, Busybee said:

@SP72, didn’t you use Eisenmans on your 3.2 or was that after you went bigger? 

Yessum- dyno figures suggest the power band has extended further north, but unsure if at the detriment of the lower end.

Will see when i drive it.

[Busybee]

4 minutes ago, SP72 said:

I think SSIs are perfect for road cars - yes you lose a smidgeon off the top end in my experience, But you gain in the midrange where you want it most.

Job jobbed.

Yessum- dyno figures suggest the power band has extended further north, but unsure if at the detriment of the lower end.

Will see when i drive it.

Soon I hope Shirish 👍

[Chris_911]

18 hours ago, SP72 said:

I think SSIs are perfect for road cars - yes you lose a smidgeon off the top end in my experience, But you gain in the midrange where you want it most.

Job jobbed.

Yessum- dyno figures suggest the power band has extended further north, but unsure if at the detriment of the lower end.

Will see when i drive it.

Very interesting Shirish.

Eisenmann system still in the back of my mind. I know Andy Young has this system.

I'm going to get my car booked in to have the existing original system removed and that will force me to make a decision.

[SP72]

6 minutes ago, Chris_911 said:

Very interesting Shirish.

Eisenmann system still in the back of my mind. I know Andy Young has this system.

I'm going to get my car booked in to have the existing original system removed and that will force me to make a decision.

I bought Andy’s ‘F Modell’ Eisenmann exchangers due to his fitment concerns.  He then bought the ‘G Modell’ setup, which I understand you have to use their silencer with, and is not compatible with a standard SSI friendly silencer.

The ‘F’ needed some adaptation - some spare flanges were used as spacers at the head join to address some fouling further down the pipework (effectively making them thick flange), plus one of the outlets didn’t line up well my silencer.  And the MFI port needing capping.

All in all, I would go with SSIs for ease of fitment, with the above caveat re top end constraints.

18 hours ago, Busybee said:

Soon I hope Shirish 👍

Jesus H feck, it needs to be!

[Chris_911]

8 minutes ago, SP72 said:

I bought Andy’s ‘F Modell’ Eisenmann exchangers due to his fitment concerns.  He then bought the ‘G Modell’ setup, which I understand you have to use their silencer with, and is not compatible with a standard SSI friendly silencer.

The ‘F’ needed some adaptation - some spare flanges were used as spacers at the head join to address some fouling further down the pipework (effectively making them thick flange), plus one of the outlets didn’t line up well my silencer.  And the MFI port needing capping.

All in all, I would go with SSIs for ease of fitment, with the above caveat re top end constraints.

Jesus H feck, it needs to be!

Thanks Shirish.

Just had a look at the Pelican larger diameter Dansk poll, but looks like a true 3.2 model SSI is still some way off.

Looking again at Eisenmann..... Was wondering about your fitment  issues but didn't realise about the different model variants.

[SP72]

Andy’s ‘G’ also had issues I believe, the benefit is that you don’t need to backdate heat (you do with the F), you can retain the heater blower fan and keep the existing tinware etc etc. Unsure about oil lines with the G.

The Eisenmann ‘may’ need tweaking to fit, the SSIs will need oil lines, and IIRC mandate backdated heat (although I’m sure I’ve seen some setups on Pelican where standard heat was retained with SSIs)

Bit of work needed either way.

Youve read Lyle O’s posts here ?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/929207-bigger-ssi-system.html

[Chris_911]

36 minutes ago, SP72 said:

Andy’s ‘G’ also had issues I believe, the benefit is that you don’t need to backdate heat (you do with the F), you can retain the heater blower fan and keep the existing tinware etc etc. Unsure about oil lines with the G.

The Eisenmann ‘may’ need tweaking to fit, the SSIs will need oil lines, and IIRC mandate backdated heat (although I’m sure I’ve seen some setups on Pelican where standard heat was retained with SSIs)

Bit of work needed either way.

Youve read Lyle O’s posts here ?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/929207-bigger-ssi-system.html

Thanks - Just re-read that post.

Ok so now I am thinking of pulling the trigger on an Eisenmann system....

[strosek34]

I’ve got a Hayward and Scott backbox on mine fitted to steel sis style manifolds,  it’s a deeper sound than a lot of  systems but sounds good to me,

The whole system has been on the car about about 14 years or more now.

 

[Chris_911]

5 minutes ago, strosek34 said:

I’ve got a Hayward and Scott backbox on mine fitted to steel sis style manifolds,  it’s a deeper sound than a lot of  systems but sounds good to me,

The whole system has been on the car about about 14 years or more now.

 

Thanks Steve - good to hear from you!

[strosek34]

Cheers Chris,  the more you research the harder it becomes to decide,

Personally I would go SSI,s with a good backbox,  my H&S box is 1 out by the way.

 

[jehatwhitland]

On 2/9/2019 at 4:09 PM, 786 said:

Anyone make a system like this for a 3.2?

I don't knowhow well they work, but GT Racing in the US make equal length headers for the 3.2 - http://www.gt-racing.com/porsche-911-european-racing-headers-for-911-2-7-3-2-liter-motors-with-street-adaptor-part-911-158-sa/

[Chris_911]

7 hours ago, jehatwhitland said:

I don't knowhow well they work, but GT Racing in the US make equal length headers for the 3.2 - http://www.gt-racing.com/porsche-911-european-racing-headers-for-911-2-7-3-2-liter-motors-with-street-adaptor-part-911-158-sa/

Looks nice (and loud maybe) but no good for me - no provision for heat.

[Chris_911]

Decision made - I am about to order the Eisenmann system.

Car now also booked in to have the existing exhaust removed the week.

My aim is to get it all done and back together for drive it day in April.

[Chris_911]

I have just ordered the Eisenmann system.

What is the current thinking on exhaust studs and nuts? Interested in corrosion resistance and ease of disassembly down the road.

 

Edited February 11, 2019 by Chris_911

[Nige]

All can be redone in stainless if you want, though that requires the existing studs to come out without a fight.

I recently replaced 3 studs with regular steel items, although I did use stainless nuts and barrel nuts.  Which is probably pointless as it's the studs that corroded/become brittle.  Not sure if stainless is the answer though, I guess it won't corrode but how is it affected by heat cycles?

Good luck.

[Chris_911]

What material is the stud threaded into - is it aluminium or steel? If aluminium then stainless studs are not a good idea.

Titanium would be better but £££ I'm sure.

The specialist I am taking the car to will remove all of the existing studs, though whether I am going to end up with helicoils remains to be seen. I want to start from scratch with the new system.

Where did you get your stainless nuts and barrel nuts from Nige?

[Nige]

They're direct into the head, so ali and yeah probably best stick with standard studs.  Stainless nuts where just regular items with the barrel nuts from Matt @ Type 911.

I guess Titanium studs are the way forward, but I'd imagine regular items will be perfectly fine for many years.

The nuts came off the easiest with the barrel nuts bringing half the stud with them, but then the stud remains did resemble a twiglet.

Best bet, which has been mentioned before, would be to cut away as much of the heat exchanger as possible leaving good access to die grind/dremel the barrel nuts off the studs without even trying to turn them.  

Even then you may still want to replace the studs, which may still requiring drilling.

 

 

Edited February 11, 2019 by Nige

[Chris_911]

1 minute ago, Nige said:

They're direct into the head, so ali and yeah probably best stick with standard studs.  Stainless nuts where just regular items with the barrel nuts from Matt @ Type 911.

I guess Titanium studs are the way forward, but I'd imagine regular items will be perfectly fine for many years.

The nuts came off the easiest with the barrel nuts bringing half the stud with them, but then the stud remains did resemble a twiglet.

Best bet, which has been mentioned before, would be to cut away as much of the heat exchanger as possible leaving good access to die grind/dremel the barrel nuts off the studs without even trying to turn them.  

Even then you may still want to replace the studs, which may still requiring drilling.

 

 

Thanks Nige - I am paying someone else to get all of the old stuff off for me 😉

[Nige]

Best way.  It's not too difficult with the right gear and a car lift, but DIY on your back under a car on axle stands isn't fun.  Took me almost all day to drill 3 of the b*ggers out and about 7 days for my shoulders to recover.

If they're charging a couple of hundred to fit then rip their hands off.

[Chris_911]

I'm going to get the car back on a trailer so I can do the fitting work.

I will replace all of the exhaust studs - might see if I can find anyone offering titanium but suspect I'll end up with OE bits when I see the cost.

I have driveshaft gaiters to renew, and I'm going to fit some new stainless heater boxes whilst the exhaust is off.

Eisenmann has quoted me 5-6 weeks for delivery of their system.

[MarkJ]

14 hours ago, jehatwhitland said:

I don't knowhow well they work, but GT Racing in the US make equal length headers for the 3.2 - http://www.gt-racing.com/porsche-911-european-racing-headers-for-911-2-7-3-2-liter-motors-with-street-adaptor-part-911-158-sa/

turbo Thomas does. These are the headers I have on my car from him. But I did have some alignment issues on the ports that had to be rectified.

What is the Eisenmann system referred to here? Never heard of it.

 

[SP72]

Eisenmann = Bigger SSI copies (42mm OD / 39mm ID primaries)

Andy’s pics:

 

14 hours ago, jehatwhitland said:

I don't knowhow well they work, but GT Racing in the US make equal length headers for the 3.2 - http://www.gt-racing.com/porsche-911-european-racing-headers-for-911-2-7-3-2-liter-motors-with-street-adaptor-part-911-158-sa/

Those are the old George’s European Headers, GTRacing took over George’s products after his demise.  Supposed to work very well according to Pelicanites, unsure of primary length as maybe suited to track rather than road.