Cayman S 987 Gen 1

[pstarkey]

Richard - sure I used a MOMO boss which I got from Design 911;

https://www.design911.co.uk/fu/prod134705/Steering-Wheel-Boss-Fitting-Kit-MOMO-for-Porsche-997-2004--/ 

Looks like the fitment is the same for your Boxter.  To remove the steering wheel, (disconnect the battery first) there is a small hole on the back of the wheel where you insert a screwdriver (smaller flat blade) and fiddle about to pop out the airbag module, I watched a couple of YouTube videos that were helpful.  There are 3 connections from the wiring harness to the airbag module one for the horn and 2 for the airbag (high and low speed as I understand it).  The wheel is held on by a 12 spline T55 torx (I had a 12 MM splined tool that was spot on).  To fit the boss you do need to Dremel or use a small hacksaw to remove part of the clock spring,  torque to 50Nm, you need to feed the wiring through the boss which is fiddly with the wheel attached so I fitted the wheel later using the 6 small countersunk allen bolts.  The wheel was on my 911 so I had the Porsche horn push and made up a couple of wires from the loom connectors onto the horn and then got some 3.3Ohm resistors from ebay as only one was supplied with the hub;

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/251653436475

I did use some other resistors I already had, but these are obviously wrong as I now have an airbag light I need to get reset (standard OBD reader does not do this).  Will let you know how I get on with the new ones and ensure that the airbag light stays off for MOT purposes.  MOT is another point as I understand that a car that had a factory fit airbag in the wheel needs to have one for the MOT, so non airbag aftermarket steering wheels are a fail - but that could be hearsay.

[Richard Bernau]

Cheers for that !

The resistors I used for the side airbags in the seats that disappeared with the race seat install are in my boxa.net thread and are presumably the same as the one you need.  Can't recall off the top of my head though.

[pstarkey]

Just to confirm the 3.3 Ohm resistors as in the picture and from eBay worked in mine - I had to reset the airbag light with a SnapOn Zeus, but all good now.

Ordered CL5+ pads for the back, hopefully get them in at the weekend.

Booked Silverstone GP on 21st for a shakedown, so will see how that goes.

[GrahamTompkins]

Hi Paul, 

i ran the MOT issue past my son , who amongst other things is a qualified MOT tester. The answer to the question as far as MOT testing is concerned  ,is with an airbag car ,the light sequence on ignition and start up must follow the correct sequence and to ensure this happens with a non airbag car the appropriate resistors need to be fitted , which you have done  so it would not be a fail😀.

Graham

[pstarkey]

First track day in the car at Silverstone on Thursday on the GP circuit.  Initial thoughts are plenty of power (for me anyway, especially coming from the 200BHP Clio) and makes a great noise, engine and transmission were great.  I just need to adjust my driving coming from the Clio which had no weight at the back and be more patient with the throttle to keep understeer in check, but a great responsive and balanced car, however it seemed to lack grip - I am putting this down to tyres (currently on fairly worn 5 year old ContiSport Contact 3s all round), so that is easily solved just need to decide what to go for based on the various posts but likely Yoko AD08R or PS2s, I want to see how that feels before doing anything with the geo.

Brakes were disappointing - CL5+ pads all round decent new ATE 200 fluid, GT3 brake ducts and braided lines, the pedal is there (not spongy) but they lack bite, someone else drove the car and described them as 'wooden' so I am looking at discs - options seem to be the 340mm upgrade as per RB (going to drop Freaky Parts a note) on his Boxter or the Sebro ones, but again an easy job once they are here.

Overall pretty pleased.

Small oil leak on the timing chain adjusters - so going to get Fearnsport (who are local to me) to sort that out.

[jevvy]

Sounds like a decent first trackday with plenty to fiddle / fettle / refine. You should have done the first dew laps in reverse as a half-way-house between clio and cayman to help get your eye in

Why not do a few more days on the less than perfect tyres - will help you learn about how the car moves around and how it breaks away at more sensible speeds before putting some sticky stuff on and upping the pace - just a thought.

You seen the strut top issues on the GT4's recently? Is the cayman the same in that area?

Look forward to further updates.

[Von Twinzig]

11 hours ago, pstarkey said:

Brakes were disappointing......the pedal is there (not spongy) but they lack bite, someone else drove the car and described them as 'wooden'.......

 

 

Interesting comment Paul. The exact one I made after first driving the 997. I’ve put my usual 600+ fluid in and fiddled around with various compounds, and whilst better, I still wouldn’t call them inspiring. 

VT

[Busybee]

Funnily enough, timing chain adjusters started leaking on my 08 Boxster this last week. Quite badly. Ordered the washers, new oil filter etc from OPC Cardiff yesterday, arrived today. 

[pstarkey]

Jevvy - good point I am sure I can get another track day out the tyres.  Yes seen the GT4 top mount failures when reading up on the early cars there was no mention of this so not seeing it as a problem I hope.

Only other update is not exciting - just a couple of new exhaust clamps....  Brake discs next and then just drive it..

[MarkJ]

tyres will make a huge difference. My CR had F1 Eagles on it for the first year, and though it was fun power sliding out of every corner (and my office carpark exit  )  it really let it down on track where the tyres couldn't match the car's dynamics and performance. (suspect the tyres were either original fit or a few years old and had gone a bit hard).

As soon as I bolted the Michelin ps4's on it was mega grippy and you could corner at crazy speeds

 

[Richard Bernau]

I am beginning to think that expectations of the CL pads are where our problem lies.  Being as objective as possible, I think the CL pads perform more like DS2500s or 1144s in terms of feel and bite.  So, still work fine from cold and a little more bite than OEM, good under thermal stress, but compromised track work.  And given they are not a super high friction pad, that probably makes sense.  I bet if you stick Pagid or PF race pads in (or DS3000 or 1155s), the cars would stand on their noses, but with all the downsides of a race pad and much higher cost.

Example (NB - indicative as some are hot vs peak co-ef):
RC5+ - 0.43 co-ef
RC6 - 0.5 co-ef
DS2500 - 0.42 co-ef
DS3000 - 0.51 co-ef
Pagid RS29 (yellow) - 0.49 co-ef
Pagid RS42 (blue) - 0.44 co-ef
Pagid RS44 (orange) - 0.49 co-ef

From others descriptions, I hoped the CL was a "do everything" pad.  To be fair, it probably comes closer than anything else I have tried, but maybe there is just no such thing.

The bigger front discs certainly help.

BTW what is the GT4 top mount failure thing?  I haven't heard of it.

[jevvy]

54 minutes ago, Richard Bernau said:

BTW what is the GT4 top mount failure thing?  I haven't heard of it.

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=231&t=1613839

A few threads on Rennlist too if you prefer a less PH view on it.

[Richard Bernau]

2 hours ago, jevvy said:

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=231&t=1613839

A few threads on Rennlist too if you prefer a less PH view on it.

987 is the same as a 997 in that area - and I don't see any 987/997 stories.  Am I right in thinking that GT4 being 981 is somewhat different.

Still, if you habitually hit the kerbs in a road car (as seems to be the case in the GT4 stories), you are asking for trouble.

[MarkJ]

its a gt4 only related problem as far as I know. I saw a photo of one of those top mount failures the other day, looked horrendous (and expensive!)

[pstarkey]

Seems that the GT4 is based on the 981 and that may be where the issue come from, but reading over this not enough examples to conclude anything and I would think you need to hit a lot of kerbs hard for this to happen.

On the brakes I wrote to Carbon Lorraine asking for disk recommendation that will work with the CL5+, this was their reply "Anything without holes really.  To be honest if you want more bite go more compound." not keen on a more aggressive compound as its also used on the road and I need to cold stopping, will try different discs Sebro are £160/pair from ECP currently and I will see what Freaky Parts say.  Overall RB - you are right expectation vs reality and perhaps PF or Pagids next.

Will update when the new discs are on, there is another Silverstone event on 23rd March so plan to have this and the tyres done by then and will probably get the wheels refurbed as they are looking rough.

[Richard Bernau]

Interesting comment on the holes.  The same thought crossed my mind that no holes means more pad-disc contact area, so all things equal more friction.  The 345mm discs I ordered have <50% of the holes of a std disc plus slots.  You can get just slotted or completely plain IIRC.

[reddevil]

I think the 981 is aluminium in this area and the towers bonded and riveted to the tub. 

987 is steel IIRC so doubt it will suffer the same issue.

 

[pstarkey]

Leaking timing chain oil seal replaced at Fernsport yesterday - only an hours labour its not quite as simple as undoing the tensioner, changing seal and putting the new one in.

Bigger brake discs and caliper adaptors ordered from Freaky parts, so will get then fitted when they arrive.  Wheels off and away being fully stripped at painted £60/corner cash seems good as they do a proper tyres off front and back job.  Just need to decide on new tyres, options are;

Michelin Pilot Sport PS2 if I want something N rated (which I am not that bothered about on a car this age)

Michelin Pilot Super Sport which I can get for the rear but not the front, so was considering the Michelin Pilot Sport cup 2 up front (they do not do 265/40/18 for the rear)

 

Any thoughts on if it matters having different front and rear?

I like the Yoko AD08R but will get Michelin this time.

[Busybee]

1 hour ago, pstarkey said:

Leaking timing chain oil seal replaced at Fernsport yesterday - only an hours labour its not quite as simple as undoing the tensioner, changing seal and putting the new one in.

Oil change and blocking the timing? Having mine done Monday at local garage (non porker place so keen to know all about it) 

[Richard Bernau]

On ‎3‎/‎2‎/‎2019 at 10:42 AM, pstarkey said:

Any thoughts on if it matters having different front and rear?

I like the Yoko AD08R but will get Michelin this time.

Different front/rear?  I wouldn't though, I have in the past.  Hypocritical, moi?  Years ago dipping into the track tyre spiral I ran used D98Js front and PzeroCs rear.  It worked fine on a nice dry track, but that doesn't sit well with me now.

I heard on another forum, that Michelin updates its compounds to the latest across like models to avoid duplication - meaning a 2018/19 manufactured PS2 or an SS are now using PS4S compound.  This would make me much more inclined to just buy the cheapest of those 3 if sizes work or to mix within those 3 if necessary.

[topcarrera]

Really can't see a problem .......

I ve currently got Yoko A048s on the front and Kumho V70s on the rear of my 15" fuchs

[pstarkey]

Couple more jobs done, got the larger 338mm brake disc kit from Freaky Parts, all fitted a bit fiddly as the discs do not have the holes for the screws so lining up the wheel bolts is a bit of a pain but all together.  Also had the wheels refurbished, tyres off, acid dipped and stripped and painted, new tyres PS Cup 2 up front and PSS on the rear (they don't do the PS Cup 2 in 265 40 18 that I could find.  Need to bed in the disks, but well on the way to doing that then will see how they perform.

Next track day booked at Silverstone on the national circuit on 23rd March so will see how the extra brakes and grip from the tyres is, then get the geo setup.  Quite liking the balance of the car overall.

[Richard Bernau]

Looks good.

Time to invest in wheel studs and ditch the hated wheel bolts.

[pstarkey]

On 3/12/2019 at 1:41 PM, Richard Bernau said:

Looks good.

Time to invest in wheel studs and ditch the hated wheel bolts.

What length did you get Richard 35 or 45mm? I don't intend on using spacers so the 35mm should be ok.

[pstarkey]

So another track day on Saturday on the Silverstone national, new tyres a lot better as are the brakes with the larger rotors, just the driver that needs improving now.

Next bit of tinkering will probably be a geo check/setup, more to see where things are currently as the car feels pretty well balanced to be although some toe and camber will not go a miss.