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Chris_911

SSI style oil lines - a problem

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Today I have been trying to fit my oil lines in preparation for fitting my new exhaust.

Unfortunately an unforeseen problem - the new oil line from the thermostat to the engine return kinks on installation. In the image below the arrangement is at its 'natural' position (where it settles with everything loose). Either raising or lowering the bottom arm of the hard part of the line increases the acuteness of the flexi angle and hence makes the kink worse.

The hose is not totally kinked but I would not be happy to run the engine with it like this.

I have tried attaching some strong zip ties to support the hose but these do not solve the issue - though they are of some slight help.

Has anybody else experienced this? The only thing I can think to try is another hose - this is the one supplied with my Eisenmann exhaust kit.

1926063867_OilLineKink-1.jpg.bcd343cb035fda3b48074e6609d31253.jpg

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Can you 'adjust' the metal bend slightly to alleviate the stress causing the kink?

If you get it as close as you can then actually discconect it so its not sat slightly kinked until fill with oil and first start time, hopefully then the first few heat and oil pressure cycles will reduce the kink further.

 

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Thanks Jevvy.

That would certainly help - not sure how much I can persuade it round without kinking the pipe though. Unfortunately I don't have any pipe bending gear.

I guess if it does kink though I'm no worse off that buying another new pipe anyway ;)

 

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I had this Chris. Design 911 sent me 3 of those lines with my SSI/Dansk kit where the rubber section is too short on that oil line and that's what forces the kink. They eventually sent me one that was made up for me at the right length and the radius was perfect. There's a thread on here where you'll find all my woes and eventual success with this. 

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Borrow some pipe benders and bend a curve into the flat section such that the vertical crimped metal-rubber joint points more forward. Do it in situ until kink comes out....

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5 minutes ago, Busybee said:

I had this Chris. Design 911 sent me 3 of those lines with my SSI/Dansk kit where the rubber section is too short on that oil line and that's what forces the kink. They eventually sent me one that was made up for me at the right length and the radius was perfect. There's a thread on here where you'll find all my woes and eventual success with this. 

Thanks. Had occurred to me that the hose section is simply too short as it cannot form a nice gentle curve.

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I think as Jevvy says you should be able to remove the kink by altering the orientation of the metal part of the pipe by loosening it’s end and repositioning.

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Shouldn’t need to be doing any alterations, the part should fit. 

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2 minutes ago, Dr Rock said:

Shouldn’t need to be doing any alterations, the part should fit. 

Agreed but not especially helpful Doc ;)

31 minutes ago, Ian Comerford said:

I think as Jevvy says you should be able to remove the kink by altering the orientation of the metal part of the pipe by loosening it’s end and repositioning.

Repositioning won't do it - I've satisfied my curiosity but the kink is minimised when the parts are allowed to find their own position when loose. Anything else, moving the orientation of the pipe up or down increases the kink.

The rubber hose portion is either too short, or the angle into the hard portion is incorrect.

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Have you challenged the supplier?

It’s not good. It would be very easy to take the part to pertek and get a longer length of hose fitted. It may also be possible to heat the bend cherry red and tease it over 2 or 3 degrees but as soon as you modify it the supplier will be relieved of any responsibility.

The other way to look at this is that the pipe is under +ive pressure and hot oil under pressure will probably form the bend in the hose - fine for 10 year old JCB but a classic Porsche??

If this was mine I would probably just take it to pertek and get a longer hose fitted. They would also fit better quality ferrules and hose.

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9 minutes ago, Leicestershire said:

Have you challenged the supplier?

It’s not good. It would be very easy to take the part to pertek and get a longer length of hose fitted. It may also be possible to heat the bend cherry red and tease it over 2 or 3 degrees but as soon as you modify it the supplier will be relieved of any responsibility.

The other way to look at this is that the pipe is under +ive pressure and hot oil under pressure will probably form the bend in the hose - fine for 10 year old JCB but a classic Porsche??

If this was mine I would probably just take it to pertek and get a longer hose fitted. They would also fit better quality ferrules and hose.

Good call ;)

 

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I too tried the turn it back n forth Chris. As you say, just makes the kink worse. I’ve tried finding my thread for you but I just can’t see it. Was over Xmas 17 and into Jan 18. A slightly longer rubber section sorts it. The oil line D911 sent me that eventually fitted was fabricated by Pertek I think. Much better quality 

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25 minutes ago, Busybee said:

I too tried the turn it back n forth Chris. As you say, just makes the kink worse. I’ve tried finding my thread for you but I just can’t see it. Was over Xmas 17 and into Jan 18. A slightly longer rubber section sorts it. The oil line D911 sent me that eventually fitted was fabricated by Pertek I think. Much better quality 

Any idea how much longer it is - I am guessing maybe 50mm?

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That’s why I was looking for my post. Lengths are in there. Don’t hold me to it but I think the first 3 lines I had were 270-280mm between the ferrules. I needed 310mm. A bit longer wouldn’t hurt. I’ll have another go at finding my post Chris. What’s the length of yours between the ferrules (just the length of black hose visible)? 

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2 minutes ago, Busybee said:

That’s why I was looking for my post. Lengths are in there. Don’t hold me to it but I think the first 3 lines I had were 270-280mm between the ferrules. I needed 310mm. A bit longer wouldn’t hurt. I’ll have another go at finding my post Chris. What’s the length of yours between the ferrules (just the length of black hose visible)? 

Had a look for your thread but couldn’t find it.

 I will have a measure tomorrow. I’m hoping that My local Pirtek is open tomorrow.

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Doc found it Chris /|\

the line that fitted had a 305mm long rubber section. Was actually in three parts. I’d get one 315mm long between the silver crimps and you’ll be good to go. 

Edited by Busybee

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Rubber section on my hose measures 280mm - way too short :( 

Pirtek shut today. Think I will give Matthew  at Type911 a shout and get a new hose. I can't believe getting my hose modified is going to be any cheaper.

My Eisenmann saga continues....

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Are you sure longer rubber hose length is going to help? (fnar fnar)

Additional hose length will force the medal pipe to pivot / rotate down which increases the angle where the hose has to attach.

Also the hose Pirtek uses (in my experience) is thicker than the stuff normally used on those oil lines so may actually kink more as its less able to deal with the curve required. Finally the Pirtek crimps and crimp machine create longer crimps which dont correctly seal against the second bubble on the end fittings (Look at the short crimp marks on the current pipe) and add extra un-bendable sections to the end of each pipe.

Basically what I'm saying is that you are unlikely to get  result first time with a Pirtek solution.

Do you have a hefty bench vice or something you can get a good firm grip on the pipe with? A well judged twist / bend of the existing fitting to rotate the left hand fitting to be more in line and closer to the right hand fitting has got to be worth a shot. I'm not talking about putting a new actual pipe bend into it but you will find it will have a range of 'adjustment' without actually needing any bending equipment.

The same type of adjustment is needed to fit an SSI question mark oil line onto a 3.6 conversion.

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Pirtek crimps look more like this:

42_2_450x290.jpg

Which dont correctly seal the porsche type end fittings:

30mm-hose-end-large.jpg

As they squash the pipe against the outer bubble instead of applying pressure to the hose on the fitting side of the bubble, correct shaped crimp part also shown in the pic above.

HTH.

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35 minutes ago, jevvy said:

Are you sure longer rubber hose length is going to help? (fnar fnar)

Additional hose length will force the medal pipe to pivot / rotate down which increases the angle where the hose has to attach.

Also the hose Pirtek uses (in my experience) is thicker than the stuff normally used on those oil lines so may actually kink more as its less able to deal with the curve required. Finally the Pirtek crimps and crimp machine create longer crimps which dont correctly seal against the second bubble on the end fittings (Look at the short crimp marks on the current pipe) and add extra un-bendable sections to the end of each pipe.

Basically what I'm saying is that you are unlikely to get  result first time with a Pirtek solution.

Do you have a hefty bench vice or something you can get a good firm grip on the pipe with? A well judged twist / bend of the existing fitting to rotate the left hand fitting to be more in line and closer to the right hand fitting has got to be worth a shot. I'm not talking about putting a new actual pipe bend into it but you will find it will have a range of 'adjustment' without actually needing any bending equipment.

The same type of adjustment is needed to fit an SSI question mark oil line onto a 3.6 conversion.

Longer hose will allow a greater bend radius and therefore a more 'straight' angle onto the lower bit of the hard line.

Actually I believe I have far bigger problems - I have just offered up the Eisenmann HEs and they do not appear to fit.......

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15 minutes ago, Chris_911 said:

 

Actually I believe I have far bigger problems - I have just offered up the Eisenmann HEs and they do not appear to fit.......

Holy Moly Mate, I feel for you. I would certainly be sending it all back by now.

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That problem could solve a bigger problem.

 

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On the pass side the new piece of OE tin that I have fitted doesn't allow the HE to fit. Now, this is not a problem specific to Eisenmann, SSIs would show the same problem. I hadn't realised this though so I think my option here is to take my Dremel to my hugely expensive piece of Porsche OE engine tin.

But on the driver's side I don't believe the HE is clearing the engine oil cooler. I need to go back out to the garage and have another look. Bizarrely, and I don't understand the purpose of these, there is a welded-on tab on the driver's HE that is perfectly positioned to hit a boss on the crankcase. 

Edited by Chris_911

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