Eisenmann Exhaust System for 3.2 Carrera - Fitting

[Type911]

that they have 'sold and installed several dozens of identical units over many years'

Thought they started in 2017?

[GrahamTompkins]

58 minutes ago, Phill said:

 

I think it may be time for some reviews to be left for Eisenmann..........

Good call...best place seems to be 911UK forum ?  They appear to have done the biz on the Gmund “alleged “issues.🤔

[proporsche]

this is so unGerman...even if you showed them this not aligned pictures they still refuse to believe?

I definitely would drive down there -but easy say than done i understand....

Are you dealing with them over the phone or just an emails? 

 

Ivan

[Roy M]

4 minutes ago, GrahamTompkins said:

Good call...best place seems to be 911UK forum ?  They appear to have done the biz on the Gmund “alleged “issues.🤔

Or Facebook - wider audience. Some welding pictures would be good

[proporsche]

i just called them.I have asked about the return policy if the product does not fit.He told me no problem if it does not fit you can return it to us .The only way they would not do it if you would drive with it.Make sense this person is semi ok in English but pretty good

 

Ivan

[Phill]

I don't do Facebook very often but I have supported Chris's review on the Eisenmann bit.

[Chris_911]

11 minutes ago, Phill said:

I don't do Facebook very often but I have supported Chris's review on the Eisenmann bit.

Not quite sure how to feel about this - on the one hand I'm grateful for the support, on the other they may accuse me of collusion (they have already made a ridiculous threat of libel over the FB post you have commented on).

Thanks anyway  

[Chris_911]

2 hours ago, proporsche said:

i just called them.I have asked about the return policy if the product does not fit.He told me no problem if it does not fit you can return it to us .The only way they would not do it if you would drive with it.Make sense this person is semi ok in English but pretty good

 

Ivan

Ivan I think the main problem is that I seem to have to deal with the english end of the operation. I was actually quite surprised when I placed my order via the eisenmann-technik site and my confirmation came via the UK end, which is actually CT Technologies International. Guess he's just the UK agent.

I am making sure I copy all of my communications in to a German e-mail that I have but I am not impressed with the English guy at ll. Bullsh!t and bluster!

[proporsche]

yup you might be right..even better, closer to go and beat the stuff out of him,just joking..The guy in Germany was very cool about it..

 

Ivan

[Phill]

Can't be libel when it's fact. The quality is poor and it doesn't fit - fact.

[Phill]

Can't be libel when it's fact. The quality is poor and it doesn't fit - fact.

I'll delete my comment if it makes you more comfortable.

[Richard Bernau]

I am with Ivan - I would call Germany directly and cut out the English guy, who sounds like an idiot.  Even if I had to find a German speaker to facilitate it.

Personally, I would avoid anything going public on Facebook etc.  I would even think of deleting this thread until its resolved.  Anything that creates a bad feeling can only serve to make resolution harder and get them to dig their heels in.  Likewise, anything legal is the absolute last resort when everything else has failed.  Use the phone.  Real conversations and face to face wins every time over the keyboard.

Airing this kind of stuff in public makes us feel better and justified as we are playing our side of the story to our own tribe and getting affirmation for our position, but it rarely helps find a satisfactory solution.

3 hours ago, proporsche said:

i just called them.I have asked about the return policy if the product does not fit.He told me no problem if it does not fit you can return it to us .The only way they would not do it if you would drive with it.Make sense this person is semi ok in English but pretty good

 

Ivan

This ^^^. There is a resolution if a call to Germany is made.

[GrahamTompkins]

14 minutes ago, Richard Bernau said:

I am with Ivan - I would call Germany directly and cut out the English guy, who sounds like an idiot.  Even if I had to find a German speaker to facilitate it.

Personally, I would avoid anything going public on Facebook etc.  I would even think of deleting this thread until its resolved.  Anything that creates a bad feeling can only serve to make resolution harder and get them to dig their heels in.  Likewise, anything legal is the absolute last resort when everything else has failed.  Use the phone.  Real conversations and face to face wins every time over the keyboard.

Airing this kind of stuff in public makes us feel better and justified as we are playing our side of the story to our own tribe and getting affirmation for our position, but it rarely helps find a satisfactory solution.

This ^^^. There is a resolution if a call to Germany is made.

Sensible advice at this stage for sure Richard. 

[Chris_911]

All good advice.

Unfortunately - despite my best efforts all contact with Eisenmann-Technik in Germany gets bounced to Eisenmann UK

 

[Phill]

Have you tried phoning?

[Chris_911]

Just now, Phill said:

Have you tried phoning?

Yes - bounced to Eisenmann UK.

Seems that Eisenmann-Technik will not engage with this issue.

[Beaky]

Get a professional technical report on the quality, then physically send it back saying that if a refund is not received within 14 days you will commence legal action against them for the cost and compensation

Copy both the UK and German sides of the organisation

[Roy M]

Main thing at the moment is who your contract is with - if it's with Eisenmann then they can't keep passing you off. If your contract is with the British agents then you have to deal with those idiots. If with Eisenmann try these people https://www.ukecc-services.net/ECCDE.cfm

That should make them take notice.

Personally I would also do another Facebook post saying that they are not responding to you and asking for a named individual in Germany to contact you. However, I can fully understand any reluctance you could have!

[Chris_911]

28 minutes ago, Beaky said:

Get a professional technical report on the quality, then physically send it back saying that if a refund is not received within 14 days you will commence legal action against them for the cost and compensation

Copy both the UK and German sides of the organisation

This is a very likely plan of action - have already discussed this with my credit card co.

[Beaky]

They should hopefully capitulate, if as they say the unit is good, then they will have no problem moving it on, No!, 

[Richard Bernau]

6 hours ago, Chris_911 said:

All good advice.

Unfortunately - despite my best efforts all contact with Eisenmann-Technik in Germany gets bounced to Eisenmann UK

 

WTF?  They are mad.

Try Ivan's method and call Germany to ask about the return policy.  Then move on to BTW, your UK guy doesn't seem to know about the policy and I bought one and want to return it...  Maybe that works?

[proporsche]

yes call this number...1st one...it loos like the person in Uk is worrying about his commision...that is the problem..

+49 7150 9574-0

+49 7150 9574-120

kontakt[at]eisenmann-technik.de

Saarstraße 45
71282 Hemmingen
Germany

[topcarrera]

Would keep everything off the web at this stage. See what CC company advise first to avoid doing anything that might be in conflict with this.  Remain polite, avoid making any specific threats of action and ask for dates and times during next few days when you would be able to discuss face to face with someone in position to offer resolution.  Face to face first if situation warrants this approach; £2.5K would be enough for me .....

[Dr Rock]

^^^ good call. 

[Chris_911]

Thought I'd round this off.

After much to-ing and fro-ing, with me answering lots of detailed questions about my car, they agreed to collect (at their expense) the exhaust from me.

It took a while but I now have all of my money re-funded. So, whilst I could definitely have done without the aggravation, I have the outcome I wanted.

What I couldn't understand with the Eisenmann exhaust was the presence of the thin HE flanges. Interestingly this is the response given to me post collection of my system:

'In case any interest at all, they did previously discover the issue of the non fitment 6 – 8 mm gap was due to differences between the cylinder heads between USA and European specification cars, they do offer a system for your specification with different flanges, the error was in not remembering this time to ask you for finer details / VIN of the car before hand, apologies for this; it is the first time such a mistake has been made that we are aware of on any same units we ourselves have sold, sorry it had to happen to you.'

This from Eisenmann UK. Now I don't believe this is correct at all - I do not believe that there is any cylinder head difference between UK and US cars, but am happy to be proved wrong.

My understanding is that ALL 3.2s are thick flange HEs.

The Eisenmann website has now been modified to state this:

'PLEASE NOTE;
This should fit the following; 3.2ltr engine 152,160,170kW - WITHOUT cat converter, however some modifications may be required during installation on these 3.2ltr engines.
Please provide dimensions of the OEM heat exchanger flanges before ordering.'