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Hi All, been looking for a few months now, started off thinking gen 1 C2S or C4S, then moved onto Gen 2 PDK 2S and now looking at Gen 1 Turbos.

Im keeping the IB, but planning to down price the day car which is only doing 6,000 a year, to a run a run around and having the more modern Porsche to use in the summer months.

Has anyone else gone through this phase, starting to get put off about IMS and Bore score on the gen 1s and then as you start to think Gen 2's your in the price bracket for Gen 1 turbos! which dont have the IMS/Borescore concerns.

decisions decisions

 

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Such

4 minutes ago, Drinky said:

decisions decisions

Such first world problems, eh? :P

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Gen 1 turbo's still has the Mezger engine so a direct lineage to the IB 👍

A few friends have had them for many a year with no major issues, but consumables can be pricey, that said my cousin owns from new a 2008 Gen 2  PDK 2S now on 100k plus miles and again no issues at all.

In the many years of ownership and full on blasts across Europe apart from one tyre blowout and a water pump (this is the only weakness in the turbo) both have performed very well.

So in my mind it's not a question about durability, its initial purchase and maintenance budget and whether once behind the wheel you like the way it drives.  

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IIRC @anthonyw and @Richard Bernau have both had a dip into the watercooled pool so maybe they will offer some insight although havent seen Anthony around for a while. A few others have run stuff alongside an aircooled but dont think there was much posted on here about it.

911UK has some decent info for you to pluck through.

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Have you considered a Boxster or 996 Turbo...........decisions, decisions...................

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My wife had a 997.1 tiptronic 4s ( 3 years)  and now has a 997.2 pdk 4s  (4 years) . She uses her car every day for work etc and both have been very reliable . No borescore or IMS problems with the gen 1  and , although I was not overkeen on the tiptronic ,it was fine for her . My daily car is a Gen 2 996 C2 manual and , again , no borescore symptoms and IMS hasnt failed ( currently 104000 miles) Genuinly think the whole IMS issue has been really overhyped . That said when i replace clutch in the 996 I feel pressured into having an IMS solution fitted to ease resale when its time to move it on .

Went for an "s" for the wider body look that I prefer . The Gen 2 has the DFI 3.8 which seems to be problem-free and performance pretty good when in sport mode - although not in turbo league . PDK is excellent although , if it has the standard steering wheel manual change buttons I find then counter-intuitive personally . 

I would be inclined to choose car based on what spec/colour/budget you are looking for and then go from there regarding possible inspection for the engine issues if its a Gen 1

Good luck :-)

    

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Thanks guys, I went through this thought process last year and blame Stuart’s post and purchase earlier this year for re fanning the flames!

28 minutes ago, Beaky said:

Have you considered a Boxster or 996 Turbo...........decisions, decisions...................

I haven’t, it’s the shape of the 997 that does it for me to be honest

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19 hours ago, Drinky said:

Thanks guys, I went through this thought process last year and blame Stuart’s post and purchase earlier this year for re fanning the flames!

I haven’t, it’s the shape of the 997 that does it for me to be honest

Cayman S 987 Gen 2 PDK isn't to bad on the eye...........

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22 hours ago, Drinky said:

Thanks guys, I went through this thought process last year and blame Stuart’s post and purchase earlier this year for re fanning the flames!

I haven’t, it’s the shape of the 997 that does it for me to be honest

For me it’s very colour sensitive.  There's a silver one at work and to be honest it looks very plain, not special at all

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agreed Ian, there are so many silver and black ones about, I keep leaning towards guards red like the IB, but they are very and far between.

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I've had my 997.1 C2S for 18 months now, I specifically looked for a gen 1 with a reputable engine rebuild (mine was done by Autofarm - and hotted up at the time, but that's a different story).

I must say that it's the best car I've ever owned (closely followed by an E30 M3). They do still feel like a 911 - but more refined and can be properly hustled through the lanes. I use mine (nearly) daily and it never misses a beat. Just keep the revs down when cold and up when warm.

You're more than welcome to come and have a chat & drive in mine - oh, by the way, I'm now the 997 Register Secretary for PCGB :)   

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Was chatting to an amiable 997 owner at Caffeine & Machine recently. The week before he bought his Gen1 with borked motor someone drove it two hundred miles (?!) to Hartech for a repair quote. Apparently it didn’t sound too well on arrival, the subsequent owner later learnt when coincidentally using the same workshop for the rebuild. 

A mate has a black / black Gen1 Turbo with 9E Stage 2 tune - think he was also originally looking at Gen2s. 

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Had my cab 997.1 4S Cab coming up to 3 years. Drive it most weeks come rain or shine. Had the thing bore scoped. Dropped the pish thin oil in favour of some nice Millers NT. Lower temp thermostat. MY06 have the larger IMS. Love it. 

Red is obviously the fastest colour. :steering:

VT

 

F722EE1F-F2FC-4023-BB69-11492D6369B2.jpeg

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Thanks guys, thanks for the offer Stuart, can’t believe it was last year, I have a friend locally and have driven his thank you. Red does do it for me, loving yours VT. 

just back from the historic at Donington and looked at every 997 variation, I think my conclusion was it has to be the right car, in terms of history etc and must be an S

cheers Carl 

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Hi Guys, long shot I know, anybody know of/or has heard of James Paul Car Sales in Horsham? A car that meets my criteria, has just been put onto the market, unfortunately I cant get to see it personally for sometime, so I will be looking for someone to view on my behalf, advert below

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Porsche-911-CARRERA-4S/202673409225?hash=item2f3046ccc9:g:iZkAAOSwjsZc0pCd

 

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Nice car - £1k cheaper and more photos on their website.

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I know almost zero about this market, but is that not pricey for a gen1 997.  I thought this was almost gen2 money and 1s started in the 20s?

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2 hours ago, Richard Bernau said:

I know almost zero about this market, but is that not pricey for a gen1 997.  I thought this was almost gen2 money and 1s started in the 20s?

Can you believe, 7 years ago when my Dad took delivery of his new 991 OPC Colchester bid him £14.5k on his Gen1 997. He declined and I eventually managed to sell it for him privately for £19.5k. Admittedly it was a non-S but was manual. Crazy they are back up in the 30’s!

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3 hours ago, Richard Bernau said:

I know almost zero about this market, but is that not pricey for a gen1 997.  I thought this was almost gen2 money and 1s started in the 20s?

they do indeed start at 20k ish, but mileage, year and spec, seems not unsurprisingly to effect prices, 2008 on wards removes the IMS concern and prices seem to reflect that. Gen 2's seem to start at 35k+

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I'd go Gen 2 DFI engine for that kind of money Drinky. You're not far off 

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Spending 30 secs on Autotrader, it looks to me like £35-39k gets you into a 3.6 Gen2 - not much choice, but some nice cars.  Apart from the small brakes (not important to many), they look like a really nice car with a sweet free revving engine and the slightly more delicate and adjustable narrow body handling.

If I was in the gen1 market, I would buy much cheaper, take the Twinny precautions with heavier oil and low temp stat and maybe waterless coolant or wait for a Hartech rebuild car to come up.  All at sub £30k price.

All academic if you have the budget for a 997TT.  They are very much the sledge hammer to crack a nut approach to driving, so make sure that is your thing by test driving one.  Sledge hammer could be used to describe the ride, handling and performance fairly accurately.  The TTs are kind of point and squirt on tight roads, but with some space they shrink around you and shine. The ability to effortlessly add 50mph to your speed in no time is both good and bad.  In the 6TT, I found there was an ever present temptation to be well on the wrong side of triple digit mph.  But the tq also made drifts under power possible in a way that NA 911s simply cannot.

$0.02.

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Late to this party. 

I had a gen 1 C2S for a couple of years, fabulous do it all car, and I don't think much slower in a straight line than my current 6GT3. Easy to live with too.

15710974746_c92eabfffd_z.jpg.3af58a68c717ee81999637874288a004.jpg

But although it was faultless (save some coil packs) there was always the nag of the internet in the back of my mind about bore scoring and IMS so I sold it whilst I was ahead (for a small profit!)

Point is if you get a gen 1 you might always be worrying about what if and rebuilds etc. Finding a Hartech car in your desired spec/condition could take forever, unless you want to significantly compromise, and you will pay a 2-3k premium for it.

So personally if it's a keeper I'd go worry free gen 2 manual, the 3.6 car is +10k more than a C2S, but only 10bhp shy of the earlier car, and it has the slightly more modern interior and radio/sat nav (the gen 1 cars are laughable). 10k is what a rebuild on an early car might cost you.

Either way I don't see 997s loosing much value from here seeing as the 996 cars are starting to climb. Prices have remained static for both generations since I bought mine 5 years ago!

Turbo - nice idea, but not delicate machines and some of the servicing and maintenance costs could be eye watering!!

 

 

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