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With longer hotter summers, and the draw of enthusiastic driving holidays/short breaks across Europe is it worth adding additional cooling.

I believe that the cooling fan for the front wind radiator was an option from around 1987. OEM parts for this addition can still be purchased and Elephant Racing do their own kit 

Anyone done this or something similar?

https://www.elephantracing.com/porsche/911/oil-cooling-for-911/oil-cooler-fans/ 

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I drove my SC hard and far for a week in temperatures approaching 40c with no issues.

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Personally, I would just spend the money on a very good fully synth oil change.  Those oils are better able to deal with high heat and still protect.

I had the 3.2 on trips where it was so hot the headlining glue melted and the headlining fell off, but never needed more cooling than the std cooler (no fan) even with 280hp.  Individual cars do vary but it is really only track days on 30+ degrees that are challenging on oil temps.  Road trips never generate the same heat.  And you can always park up for a coffee and enjoy the scenery if you feel its too hot.

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Only time I've ever seen rising temps was during a particularly hot day stuck in traffic in Rouen on the way home from Le Mans. Was slow moving for about 30 mins and enough to get me feeling anxious. Once moving, that car was fine and a bit of driving at pace cooled things back down quickly enough. 

Mines an 85, so cooler up front with no fan. The only thing I would like to do would be introduce a fan setup on a toggle switch so that I've more confidence if stuck in stationary traffic again. 

Perhaps a retrofit of the 87 fan would be a solution? Or perhaps a pointless exercise, I don't know 🤷‍♂️

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likewise, worst temps I suffered were stuck in almost stationary traffic for 2 hours in 30 deg heat with no breeze at all. I felt like the engine was slowly cooking itself with zero air flow and I was getting those ominous ticking sounds of the metalwork expanding. It seriously felt like it was causing damage, but that was a worst case scenario in 10yrs. In the south of France I've deliberately exited motorways to avoid stationary traffic in their hot 30-40 deg temps and taken longer ways around just to keep the airflow moving.

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I thought the oil cooler fan was only an option in hotter countries.

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2 hours ago, Richard Bernau said:

Personally, I would just spend the money on a very good fully synth oil change.  Those oils are better able to deal with high heat and still protect.

So tempting to start another which oil debate..................but I won't :wacko::whistling:

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What sort of temps are/were you seeing that makes you think you need additional cooling?  Up to 9 o’clock on the gauge whilst moving is I believe deemed acceptable. 

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I must admit I enjoy having a manual override on an oil cooler fan so I know if stuck in traffic on a hot day I can flick it on before temps creep up too high or have to rely on the automatic temp sensor controlled functionality. I've found you can stay ahead of the game by flicking it on early rather than asking it bring temps down from (feeling) too high.

For the 964 I have an override wired into the standard system and the carrera has a spal fan fitted which is hooked up to the now redundant front fog switch - works well and provides peace of mind when stuck on a stationary sunny motorway in Europe.

Turning the engine off is always an option but you have to balance that up with murphys law of getting your first ever hot start issue when you want to restart it. If you are rolling down hill this is less of a gamble as you can normally bump start it if the starter is giving you a hard time.

Lots of temp controlled programmable fan control systems available these days and fairly easy to get hooked up, setting something up with a simple switch is even easier.

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1 hour ago, SP72 said:

What sort of temps are/were you seeing that makes you think you need additional cooling?  Up to 9 o’clock on the gauge whilst moving is I believe deemed acceptable. 

9 o'clock is 100C which is about as high as the engine should get either moving or stationary. Much above this is inviting premature wear or worse. 

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4 hours ago, Sidewaysfun said:

Only time I've ever seen rising temps was during a particularly hot Friday stuck in evening rush hour traffic in Paris on the way to the Riviera..:rolleyes:

Gauge gradually crept up to the second mark, before I managed to escape Paris. No issues with the engine.

Quit worrying and drive the car.

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As Jevvy says, a manual fan switch would be useful. No normal problems with the Turbo even on hot days while moving, the problems start while stuck in traffic with no air flow. One particular classic car show that I no longer attend was for that very reason.......endless traffic going at a crawl (if moving at all) while exiting the congested roads around the venue.....one hour later and blood pressure rising in sync with the temperature gauge approaching the 9 o’clock mark! ........ goddamn air was blue to match the Prussian Blue of the car!......the world is full of creeping Jesus’s who cannot or will not press the accelerator.

David.

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6 hours ago, SP72 said:

What sort of temps are/were you seeing that makes you think you need additional cooling?  Up to 9 o’clock on the gauge whilst moving is I believe deemed acceptable. 

In normal driving around the first graduation mark (8 O'clock) (90c) which is normal, but last week (that one hot day!) got stuck in heavy traffic that hardly moved for about 45 minutes and it crept to about 10 'clock.

All normal and within tolerances I believe, but if this was the south of France or an exceptionally hot day - typically this is when where traffic goes bananas, wouldn't the additional cooling be handy.

That Elephant racing kit looks reasonably priced.

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10 o'clock is 250 F. On the elephant racing link 250 is entering the unsafe area of the curve but this also depends on the oil being used and its viscocity. Minimum viscocity for lubrication is roughly 10cSt, the graph shows 15w40 falls below this at 250F while 15w50 is very slightly higher. A manual fan will sort that out.

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I like the look of the Elephant Racing stuff.   Do we have a UK distributor or is it the case of ordering from States and paying all fees etc?

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5 hours ago, ras62 said:

10 o'clock is 250 F. On the elephant racing link 250 is entering the unsafe area of the curve but this also depends on the oil being used and its viscocity. Minimum viscocity for lubrication is roughly 10cSt, the graph shows 15w40 falls below this at 250F while 15w50 is very slightly higher. A manual fan will sort that out.

I've had an alternator issue that was sorted this week, before that my dials were reading wrong so I could have been lower or higher!

 

3 hours ago, Sidewaysfun said:

I like the look of the Elephant Racing stuff.   Do we have a UK distributor or is it the case of ordering from States and paying all fees etc?

There seems to be some negative press on Pelican about the fit of the Elephant racing kit, need to do some more research 

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On 5/16/2019 at 1:23 PM, Richard Bernau said:

it is really only track days on 30+ degrees that are challenging on oil temps. 

I did a trackday with my SC today with temps just south of 30 C and after a few hot laps the oil temperature was reaching the red line. 

I have the conventional SC front oil radiator:

image.png.23be34bf5fce94e39876360f4da8cbc2.png

Would the Carrera 3.2 radiator be a significant improvement?

93020705304_LR1.jpg

 

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Is your rear arch stat opening properly? Do the lines going to the front cooler and the front oil cooler itself get hot? 

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3 hours ago, WP0ZZZ said:

I did a trackday with my SC today with temps just south of 30 C and after a few hot laps the oil temperature was reaching the red line. 

I have the conventional SC front oil radiator:

image.png.23be34bf5fce94e39876360f4da8cbc2.png

Would the Carrera 3.2 radiator be a significant improvement?

93020705304_LR1.jpg

 

It's plausible that you'd get hot given the conditions you state with an open stat. That cooler could help. The issue with it is getting airflow through it. That means you need to get all the ancilliaries for it too. The sheet metal to match the wing shape inside, the seal to go around, a fan, etc. You then need to get fast moving, direct air into the front of it and through it. A vent of some sort in the vallance etc.

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I would not bother.

I have that type of cooler on my 3.2 (3.2s did not get the matrix type until sometime in '85) and I do heavy track work in hot conditions without issue.

If you are getting too hot you need to check the system is all in good order. 

As suggested, check the oil lines to the cooler are getting too hot to hold first.

Mark

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On most pre 964 cars 90% of the oil cooling is done by the engine mounted cooler.

It is worth checking that the primary cooler is clear. They are often blocked with oily grime preventing airflow. 

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I have a Carrera matrix cooler under the wing with a fan and also a front mounted cooler without fan on my 930. No problems driving or on track but, as others have said,  my temperature does rise in stationary traffic. 

On a recent trip to Italy I temporarily lost my fan when a relay failed and temps were very noticeably higher in traffic - not a massive increase but worrying when you are marginal. Ambient was 30-38. Found issue and fixed so no problem but it told me that a cooler fan is important in traffic. 

I try to avoid shutting down when very hot as the heat sink effect seems to pull temps even higher for 10-20 mins which does cause a fuel vaporusatiion issue with the rear pump which is near the H/E - not an issue for a SC/Carrera though. I use a good synthetic oil as insurance. 

David 

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Thanks for all the comments. Later today, I'll check whether the front radiator gets hot.

Something that I didn't mention and might be relevant is that when I bought the car the oil lines had been replaced with rubber hoses with external metal braiding. Although I removed the rocker panels (which should improve line cooling), I think that the rubber lines might less energy dissipation than the originals...

image.thumb.png.5c0a499a2e5022af87a0f9b1af3c8f13.png

Not sure if it's useful but in normal motorway traffic the oil temp gauge was below 9 o'clock although I guess that in this case all the energy dumping could be handled by the engine mounted cooler alone?

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That is your problem. I would say 9 o'clock at normal motorway speeds is too hot. I think you need to change them back to original.

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