9m sleeper

[MarkJ]

Just beggars belief to me that dealers think it’s okay to sell a car for big bucks that needs so much rust sorting out. Bet that sill rust extends down to the jacking point too (as I know from experience!) 

[alpole]

To be fair to Colin it’s not for sale through the business . It was his car which he sold to a mate but retained an interest in . His mate now wants the money out of the car so it’s easier for Colin to broker the sale . 

The car drives really well and the engine pulls strong and effortlessly. Find it strange there is no corrosion around the windscreen . Car seems very honest and sits well . 

 

[Busybee]

5 minutes ago, alpole said:

To be fair to Colin it’s not for sale through the business . It was his car which he sold to a mate but retained an interest in . His mate now wants the money out of the car so it’s easier for Colin to broker the sale . 

The car drives really well and the engine pulls strong and effortlessly. Find it strange there is no corrosion around the windscreen . Car seems very honest and sits well . 

 

If you really liked it, can you not negotiate the bodywork repair cost into an offer? 

[Leicestershire]

Things have moved on. £30k buys a rolling restoration in need of bodywork with unknown mechanicals.

These cars are now at a point where they need body repairs or they are fully sorted. The days of finding a solid car that needs tidying are now over.

Your paying a bit for having 9m mentioned in the advert but at £50k with the mechanical bits complete it not far off current market prices.

[Kenny Senior]

56 minutes ago, Leicestershire said:

Things have moved on. £30k buys a rolling restoration in need of bodywork with unknown mechanicals.

These cars are now at a point where they need body repairs or they are fully sorted. The days of finding a solid car that needs tidying are now over.

Your paying a bit for having 9m mentioned in the advert but at £50k with the mechanical bits complete it not far off current market prices.

Leics is right. I think the price as is takes into account the fact it needs bodywork. A full glass out body restoration will run you the best part of £20k, but if the oily bits are all to the standard they purport, you'll have a £60-70k car when finished.

[SP72]

1 hour ago, Leicestershire said:

Things have moved on. £30k buys a rolling restoration in need of bodywork with unknown mechanicals.

These cars are now at a point where they need body repairs or they are fully sorted. The days of finding a solid car that needs tidying are now over.

Your paying a bit for having 9m mentioned in the advert but at £50k with the mechanical bits complete it not far off current market prices.

This doesn't tally with your family members car at £65k.  

[alpole]

45 minutes ago, Kenny Senior said:

Leics is right. I think the price as is takes into account the fact it needs bodywork. A full glass out body restoration will run you the best part of £20k, but if the oily bits are all to the standard they purport, you'll have a £60-70k car when finished.

Thanks for the comments exactly what I need to come to a decision. 

Strolling around Bicester scramble today to see what else is out there .

The option of having some work done on the two bodywork issues and getting to see what is there before I buy is a worthwhile consideration.

cheers

Alan

[Leicestershire]

53 minutes ago, SP72 said:

This doesn't tally with your family members car at £65k.  

Cost to build doesn’t reflect selling price.

How much have you spent on your car?

Restored classics with very few exceptions cost more to build then the market value.

[Busybee]

What are the body repairs and paint likely to cost? 5-10k? I’d bid them 45k. Repaired and with that engine, it’s a 50-55k car I’d guess. 

[SP72]

2 hours ago, Leicestershire said:

Cost to build doesn’t reflect selling price.

How much have you spent on your car?

Restored classics with very few exceptions cost more to build then the market value.

I’m aware of all of this, but I struggle to accept a now unoriginal, modified car at 50k needing 5-10k spent (minimum possibly) compares with a modded car with everything done at £65k.

Enough about values though, I’m off to polish my Jag

[World Citizen]

Buying someone else's finished car always works out cheaper than buying a car that needs work

£65k seems very good value assuming it is as described and not in need of work

No right answer as some owners prefer the journey than the destination

[alpole]

9 hours ago, SP72 said:

This doesn't tally with your family members car at £65k.  

What cars for sale at £65k already done ????

[skullcandy]

993 engines are pretty expensive to get hold of these days arent they? Doesn't Neil B have one for sale for £18.5k? Id be interested in hearing the engine's full specs and how much Colin has done to it. This guy spent £30k on a 993 rebuild (admittedly its a 3.8)

http://aircooledbug.co.uk/porsche-993-engine-rebuild-3-8-conversion/

If you want a well sorted 300hp IB then I would have thought such a car is going to be £55k+ isn't it? However I get the impression the hot-rod market is very difficult to understand as the devil is in the fine detail. £45k would be a good fair offer though wouldn't it? That would allow £10k for the sills etc and then the new owner would have total peace of mind.

 

Probably all wrong, but my ignorant 2p

Edited June 23, 2019 by skullcandy

[Busybee]

1 minute ago, skullcandy said:

993 engines are pretty expensive to get hold of these days arent they? Doesn't Neil B have one for sale for £18.5k? Id be interested in hearing the engine's full specs and how much Colin has done to it. This guy spent £30k on a 993 rebuild (admittedly its a 3.8)

http://aircooledbug.co.uk/porsche-993-engine-rebuild-3-8-conversion/

If you want a well sorted 300hp IB then I would have thought such a car is going to be £55k+ isn't it? However I get the impression the hot-rod market is very difficult to understand as the devil is in the fine detail. £45k would be a good fair offer though wouldn't it? That would allow £10k for the sills etc and then the new owner would have total peace of mind.

 

Probably all wrong, but my ignorant 2p

Funnily enough I (along with others I expect) was thinking of your car when reading about this. You haven’t posted much about it. All good @skullcandy?

[Leicestershire]

52 minutes ago, alpole said:

What cars for sale at £65k already done ????

 

[alpole]

1 hour ago, skullcandy said:

993 engines are pretty expensive to get hold of these days arent they? Doesn't Neil B have one for sale for £18.5k? Id be interested in hearing the engine's full specs and how much Colin has done to it. This guy spent £30k on a 993 rebuild (admittedly its a 3.8)

http://aircooledbug.co.uk/porsche-993-engine-rebuild-3-8-conversion/

If you want a well sorted 300hp IB then I would have thought such a car is going to be £55k+ isn't it? However I get the impression the hot-rod market is very difficult to understand as the devil is in the fine detail. £45k would be a good fair offer though wouldn't it? That would allow £10k for the sills etc and then the new owner would have total peace of mind.

 

Probably all wrong, but my ignorant 2p

The engine has :-

rebuild done at 178,864kms, Oct 2012 :
Valve guides
Head skim
Rings
Chain ramps
Drain tubes
Intermediate shaft bearings
Spark plugs
New engine wiring harness

Has now done 197,046kms
Around 12,000 miles

Engine has been equipped with Motec and dyno‘ done both 95 & 97 unleaded.

308hp on 95 and 325hp on 98

 

[skullcandy]

Hi Busybee

Yes all good with Brummie's car thanks.  I have put close on 2k miles on it so far around my local b-roads and it has performed faultlessly. The car is a blast to drive, pretty manic with its lightweight flywheel and Brummie's brake set up inspires confidence: really progressive and powerful.  As a 911 newbie, that flat 6 engine noise is the best thing though. 

I did have a slightly graunchy 5th into 6th gear issue sorted by Steve at Jaz: annoyingly it turned out that someone (not Brummie) who had been in the gearbox had put it back together slightly incorrectly. Obviously that was an engine out job so it was not cheap. Steve was very complimentary about Brummies work though so that was good to hear. 

It would be great to meet up with some other forum members, as hooning around on your own early am on a weekend does get a bit samey. However with young children, my pass is time limited. 

[Busybee]

1 hour ago, skullcandy said:

Hi Busybee

Yes all good with Brummie's car thanks.  I have put close on 2k miles on it so far around my local b-roads and it has performed faultlessly. The car is a blast to drive, pretty manic with its lightweight flywheel and Brummie's brake set up inspires confidence: really progressive and powerful.  As a 911 newbie, that flat 6 engine noise is the best thing though. 

I did have a slightly graunchy 5th into 6th gear issue sorted by Steve at Jaz: annoyingly it turned out that someone (not Brummie) who had been in the gearbox had put it back together slightly incorrectly. Obviously that was an engine out job so it was not cheap. Steve was very complimentary about Brummies work though so that was good to hear. 

It would be great to meet up with some other forum members, as hooning around on your own early am on a weekend does get a bit samey. However with young children, my pass is time limited. 

Great stuff. It looked a lovely car. Really pleased you’re enjoying it. Gear prob sounds like a pia but glad it was sorted. 

Where are you? Must be someone on here not too far from you to drive out with. I’ve met some good people through PCGB. Was out today with a 991.2 manual Targa gts. Good fun and theirs is a stunning car. 

[skullcandy]

Im in Herts. Good stuff, I bet the 991 looked massive next to the IB

[Busybee]

You know, I think it’s a lot to do with photo angle 

[MarkJ]

reminds of a pic I took at Spa recently, Little and Large springs to mind

 

[Richard Bernau]

$0.02 worth.

If I was in the market for a car like the 9M car, I would talk to a few people who actually buy and sell this stuff in order to get a handle on value.  There is a very real ceiling on value for hot rod cars.  Why?  Because the buyers are generally people with lots of cars and lots of money.  If it isn't perfect, they will build their own "toy" and yes it will cost them a lot more, but they don't care.  I know cars that have 6 figure builds and then get sold for half of that.  I know of almost perfect 64RS and 93RS replicas that can't make a third of the price of the real thing.    Reshelled Cup Car with history worth half a real one.  There are endless examples.  The money is in original, rare and collectible - unless you find someone prepared to pay for magic fairy dust - like a Magnus Walker car.  The 9M car makes sense at a certain price if eyes are open to the cost of remedial action.  I reckon £10k+ to fix properly if you have plenty of time.  More if you want Sportwagen quality.

Maybe one person falls in love with the car, but my money is on the car sitting for a long time and not selling.  If you put it in at auction without a reserve, I think the market clearing price starts with a 3 at best.  I know the parts are worth more than that, but I think that is the market reality.  Remember, I sold an honest, rust free car that was far more developed into the market not that long ago.

Think of it this way - once you have fixed it, you are in the hole for GT4 money, maybe early GT3 money.  Heck, I would probably sell my 930 for that money!

[GrahamTompkins]

I agree totally with Richards last post. I know there are lots of guys on here with hot rodded cars, but I suspect most of these are evolved from standard cars bought many years ago when prices were sensible . 

[alpole]

2 hours ago, Richard Bernau said:

$0.02 worth.

If I was in the market for a car like the 9M car, I would talk to a few people who actually buy and sell this stuff in order to get a handle on value.  There is a very real ceiling on value for hot rod cars.  Why?  Because the buyers are generally people with lots of cars and lots of money.  If it isn't perfect, they will build their own "toy" and yes it will cost them a lot more, but they don't care.  I know cars that have 6 figure builds and then get sold for half of that.  I know of almost perfect 64RS and 93RS replicas that can't make a third of the price of the real thing.    Reshelled Cup Car with history worth half a real one.  There are endless examples.  The money is in original, rare and collectible - unless you find someone prepared to pay for magic fairy dust - like a Magnus Walker car.  The 9M car makes sense at a certain price if eyes are open to the cost of remedial action.  I reckon £10k+ to fix properly if you have plenty of time.  More if you want Sportwagen quality.

Maybe one person falls in love with the car, but my money is on the car sitting for a long time and not selling.  If you put it in at auction without a reserve, I think the market clearing price starts with a 3 at best.  I know the parts are worth more than that, but I think that is the market reality.  Remember, I sold an honest, rust free car that was far more developed into the market not that long ago.

Think of it this way - once you have fixed it, you are in the hole for GT4 money, maybe early GT3 money.  Heck, I would probably sell my 930 for that money!

Thanks Richard I appreciate your input 👍 .

 

[Mondrian]

2 hours ago, Richard Bernau said:

I know cars that have 6 figure builds and then get sold for half of that.

I was on the lookout for a professionally built hotrod for good part of 5 years but never came across anything close to what I wanted. Sure lots of cars that have been modded here & there either by enthusiasts or in part by 2nd/3rd tier pro's but there were always issues ... ie colour change by overspray, engine rebuilt to 73/4 RS spec but no paperwork of note, immaculate exterior & interior with all the correct mods but standard high mileage engine and sunroof left in, rebuilts done by folk I have never heard of, some were insurance jobs, even seen a coupe that used to be a targa but with everything else perfect.

I had seen a few that I liked and they were all well over 100k, no idea what they sold for and pretty sure it would have cost more if I was to buy a project and do it to the same level but not by a huge margin. If it looks too good to be true then it usually is!