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2020 Alpine Road Trip


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"I need to think of the practicalities from home. Have a 4.5 hour drive to Dover from here and a 13 hour drive straight to Stuttgart is a bit extreme in one hit. Might stay in france for the night en route. Or Bruges. "

Can I suggest that Bruges wouldn't work on your way out. Somewhere like Luxembourg / Strasbourg may be better to break the journey. If you're going through France then south or east of Paris at least.

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27 minutes ago, GimmeShelter said:

Re Stuttgart, etc, what are people doing about German emissions rules?  Bit of background: a little group of us visited the Porsche Museum in June last year, travelling in Caterham Sevens.  Our cars being more recent, we were able to get emissions stickers for our windscreens, allowing us to drive in the Stuttgart area.  But with our IB's being of an age before the relevant Euro emissions regs, I haven't found a solution (there's an 'exemption' for cars over 30 years old, but you need to register it with the German authorities, I think, which explains the 'H' plates you see on some older German Porsches, and there are conditions on use/journeys, etc).  Is there another solution?  Or just leave the car outside the emissions zone and take public transport?

Don't think anyone would raise an eyebrow about a pile of old porkers rocking in. Like royalty in Stuttgart ;) 

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1 minute ago, Roy M said:

"I need to think of the practicalities from home. Have a 4.5 hour drive to Dover from here and a 13 hour drive straight to Stuttgart is a bit extreme in one hit. Might stay in france for the night en route. Or Bruges. "

Can I suggest that Bruges wouldn't work on your way out. Somewhere like Luxembourg / Strasbourg may be better to break the journey. If you're going through France then south or east of Paris at least.

Thanks. Yup, Bruges probably a bit far in one go. That's what we did this year en route to the Spa classic. A couple of friends wanted to revisit Bruge and have a meal at a Pigeon Restaurant place they knew. Was lovely but eye wateringly expensive.

I might brave it and hit it all in one go. Its June. Long old days. Lots of rest stops and munch those miles. 

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From https://www.stuttgart.de/en/item/show/573353

Exemptions apply to:

Classic cars (in accordance with Paragraph 2, No. 22 of the German Vehicle Registration Regulations) which have a licence plate in accordance with Paragraph 9, Section 1 or Paragraph 17 of the Vehicle Registration Regulations, and vehicles registered in another member state of the European Union, another contractual party to the Agreement on the European Economic Area or Turkey, if they fulfil equivalent requirements.

And Paragraph 2, No. 22 basically says that if your car is30 years old or older it qualifies as an "oldtimer". So I think any IB can claim the same exemption without lifting a finger.

If your car is newer then you need a sticker to be fully compliant. They can be obtained as follows:

  • After crossing the German border the sticker can be obtained by showing your motor vehicle registration certificate at, for example, authorised garages, vehicle inspection and emissions testing centres and at motor vehicle registration offices.
  • You can send a copy of the abovementioned documents to:
    Kfz-Zulassungsstelle
    Krailenshaldenstraße 32
    70469 Stuttgart
    S-Feuerbach
    Alternatively, you may scan the document(s) and send it/them by e-mail to:
    kfz-zulassungsstelle@stuttgart.de.
    It is advisable to send them well in advance of your trip (at least 10 days). We do not recommend making an application by fax, since the technical data is often difficult to read off a faxed copy.
    If a sticker can be issued, it will be sent to you by mail with a request for payment. Please make this payment using the relevant forms issued by your bank for foreign bank transfers and enter the following data: IBAN -DE 28600501010002002408-; BIC -SOLADEST-. Payments from the EURO-Zone are charged at the usual rate. Charges for transfers from other countries may be different and information about this can be provided by your bank. In the event that an emissions sticker cannot be issued, you will be informed of this in writing; this information is provided free of charge.

I think the charge is €6 although there are third party websites that will gladly charge you much more; have seen one at €30.

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Cool info Felix. You da man! You coming on this right? 

Toll passes, vignettes etc. Can we have a definitive post of what we need to/or is advised to get in place pre trip please guys? For us not so well travelled in Toblerone country. 

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Happy to put something together but I suggest it's put into the other thread rather than this one to avoid it getting lost in the chatter. Likely topics are:

  • French Peage transponders
  • German emissions stickers
  • Swiss autobahn vignettes
  • Austrian autobahn vignettes
  • cheapest travel money suggestions
  • in-car requirements (safety vests, hazard triangles, etc)

any other topics? Will coordinate the post with RB.

And yes, I plan to be there. In the BGTS at the moment as the targa is sold. Sadly missed out on https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1978-porsche-911sc-27/  which would have made the foundation for a fab hotrod. Agent Orange!!

Edited by sopor
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We go through France about 8 -10 times a year and the things we learned have been

French toll transponder - absolutely invaluable and great timesaver. We use APRR but now readily available 

UK Credit card which doesn't charge currency fees. We've got a Nationwide one but again there are others.

We carry a Fairfx currency card but beware that the automated petrol stations often don't take them

You need a reflective vest for each person - many people put them on the backs of the seats to show they're there. Put them on the dashboard to show Gilets jaunes support.

I understand you now need two breakdown triangles rather than one but can't remember where I got that from.

TomTom and Waze (and I understand now Google maps) warn of speed cameras in France and Spain but you need to be discreet.

You will see some of the worst driving you have ever encountered in France so take care.

Check your insurance - you'll be ok with most classic policies but the multicars will want to know you're going and possibly issue a green card.

Apologies if the above is 'sucking eggs' obvious!

Edited by Roy M
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Great Felix. Sounds good. Look forward to the thread.

That Agent Orange looks lovely. Is it pricey for pretty much a standard car with averageish miles? Better off buying one here unless you're heading back to the US or into Europe? 

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I don't think it's overly expensive given its rare colour and what looks like a solid and straight body. Rust repairs can easily hit 5 figures. IMHO those 70s M&M colours are fab. And I think a LHD IB isn't really a hardship in the UK; they're relatively narrow as compared to modern cars so overtaking isn't a big issue.

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2 minutes ago, sopor said:

I don't think it's overly expensive given its rare colour and what looks like a solid and straight body. Rust repairs can easily hit 5 figures. IMHO those 70s M&M colours are fab. And I think a LHD IB isn't really a hardship in the UK; they're relatively narrow as compared to modern cars so overtaking isn't a big issue.

You need an ivory white 912e shell that's freshly painted and ready to screw back together Felix. Save you a bunch 😜

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1 hour ago, sopor said:

Happy to put something together but I suggest it's put into the other thread rather than this one to avoid it getting lost in the chatter. Likely topics are:

  • French Peage transponders
  • German emissions stickers
  • Swiss autobahn vignettes
  • Austrian autobahn vignettes
  • cheapest travel money suggestions
  • in-car requirements (safety vests, hazard triangles, etc)

 

Go for it - started a thread here 

 

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53 minutes ago, Roy M said:

We go through France about 8 -10 times a year and the things we learned have been

French toll transponder - absolutely invaluable and great timesaver. We use APRR but now readily available 

UK Credit card which doesn't charge currency fees. We've got a Nationwide one but again there are others.

We carry a Fairfx currency card but beware that the automated petrol stations often don't take them

You need a reflective vest for each person - many people put them on the backs of the seats to show they're there. Put them on the dashboard to show Gilets jaunes support.

I understand you now need two breakdown triangles rather than one but can't remember where I got that from.

TomTom and Waze (and I understand now Google maps) warn of speed cameras in France and Spain but you need to be discreet.

You will see some of the worst driving you have ever encountered in France so take care.

Check your insurance - you'll be ok with most classic policies but the multicars will want to know you're going and possibly issue a green card.

Apologies if the above is 'sucking eggs' obvious!

We lived in France for 7 years Roy. One more thing to add to your list is disposable breathalysers. A requirement in France though I've never heard of anyone actually being asked to produce one. Plus speed cameras have become rife in the last 18 months or so apparently. 

 

24 minutes ago, Richard Bernau said:

Go for it - started a thread here 

 

Great stuff Rich. Might be an idea to tackle the "how" on each of Felix's headings? Where to get a paege gizmo etc?  

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Those French breathalysers: on a motorcycling trip a few years ago, one of our group decided to try one, one morning, to check he was in the clear after some beers the night before.  It showed all OK.  Then that evening, out of a mixture of scepticism and curiosity, after *ahem* quite a few beers, he tried another ... and it too showed all OK.  So we concluded the authorities abandoned enforcement largely because they just didn't work and perhaps a drunken public might even try to use an 'OK' result as evidence that they were OK to drive.

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About time I introduced myself to you fine chaps, I recently had asked Richard if as a newbie to the forum if I could join you. Don't panic chaps, I am a seasoned traveller with classic cars into Europe 😅

Really looking forward to the trip, looks amazing with like minded enthusiasts - and well done to Richard for putting all this together for the wider audience - & for all to enjoy!!

Not just planned anything for the downward leg, though am toying with Nurburgring, Porsche Museum & sight seeing Baden Baden. Will be travelling overnight boat Hull to Zeebrugge or Rotterdam. Dashing across M62 from Wirral, Cheshire.

These are the hotels I've secured so far;

Day 0 - Sat 20th June - Hotel Arvenbuel

Day 1 - Sun 21st June - My Tirol

Day 2 - Mon 22nd June - Hotel Begheimat

Day 3 - Tues 23rd June - Sporthotel Exclusive

Day 4 - Wed 24th June - Hotel Walther Pontresina

Day 5 - Thurs 25th June - Hotel Central Am See

 

Am toying with on the route coming back, perhaps visiting the Spa Francorchamps Classic that following weekend, and then running over to the Le Mans Classic - but I doubt it as that would be some time away. We will see!

This thread is certainly a mine of information, but I do usually just jump in the car and then just 'go'. However, all the info is certainly bloody useful & marvellous - thanks!

Did just that in September with a solo roadtrip to Angouleme, and back - 1,400 miles and 911 didn't miss a beat. By way of intro, here's is my 1985 example, at Reims passing thru, also at Arnage and at the B&B near the Cognac region, France on the way back. Great experience driving in Europe with a classic, bring it on 😍

Thanks again to Richard 👍🍻

 

NNop0Nf.jpg

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yJF8kqz.jpg

 

Would love to see your beauties that you are planning on taking 😁

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+1 looks lovely in white 👍

In other news, I have rejigged day 5 over the last couple of evenings.  I think that a better option after leaving Pontresina is Julier --> Albula --> Flüela, then Davos, Klosters and the Klausen.  This adds maybe an hour to the day and those sleeping in can still do the shorter option, but having looked at youtube vids on these passes, they are some of the best Swiss passes if you like the open, wide, smooth and flowing roads.  Only the west side of Albula has some narrow bits.  Sure there is some Swiss traffic, but I think these are must drive roads with enough passing spots and lovely clear sight lines thru sweeping corners and some more open hairpins.  In the original planning, I hadn't realised just how close they are.  And its a while since I have been in this part of Switzerland.

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Welcome Bobafett, lovely car and I think you'll both fit in just fine 👍 with the good crowd RB has managed to entice into joining one of his fine driving tours

I'd love to be doing this trip, might have to make things happen so I can join in the fun 🤔

 

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On 12/4/2019 at 9:40 AM, Busybee said:

I need to think of the practicalities from home. Have a 4.5 hour drive to Dover from here and a 13 hour drive straight to Stuttgart is a bit extreme in one hit. Might stay in france for the night en route. Or Bruges. 

Outskirts of Reims and Metz are the 2 best options IMHO if you are looking to travel fast and just layover for a sleep.  French tolls are steep, but you cover ground more quickly on the Peage than any other route.  I use Metz as it gets you most of the way towards the German border and is really not too far from Calais to do in one hit after the 35 min rest on the train, even if its late at night.  Hotels like the Metz Ibis budget have 24 hr reception IIRC.

12 hours ago, World Citizen said:

I'd love to be doing this trip, might have to make things happen so I can join in the fun 🤔

 

Just do it.

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1 minute ago, Richard Bernau said:

Outskirts of Reims and Metz are the 2 best options IMHO if you are looking to travel fast and just layover for a sleep.  French tolls are steep, but you cover ground more quickly on the Peage than any other route.  I use Metz as it gets you most of the way towards the German border and is really not too far from Calais to do in one hit after the 35 min rest on the train, even if its late at night.  Hotels like the Metz Ibis budget have 24 hr reception IIRC.

Just do it.

Thanks RB. Yup WC, be good to meet you in person and see the 64/30

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18 hours ago, Richard Bernau said:

I think that a better option after leaving Pontresina is Julier --> Albula --> Flüela, then Davos, Klosters and the Klausen.... they are some of the best Swiss passes if you like the open, wide, smooth and flowing roads.  In the original planning, I hadn't realised just how close they are.

+1 Some of my favourites! :signs85:

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