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i'm still happy with September as the Plan, it gives a little breathing room (s'cuse the pun).  To be honest, having now been unpaid for 2 months and my savings/pension taken a battering from the stock falls I might find it hard to justify laying out a couple of k for a weeks hooning at the moment/so soon. If the economy doesn't bounce back like we all hope it will, I could be out considerably longer until people get back to building things. But don't want to think negatively like our beloved press :rolleyes:

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I will try to be objective (I have used today's papers and EU official guidance as my sources), you can all draw your own conclusions.  My opinion at the end, so you can ignore if you like. Franc

or you could try keeping your left wing sniping bullsh*t out of a car forum  and a thread for a trip that you aren't involved with.

A nice cup of Tea and some cake anyone.............................................  

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I will try to be objective (I have used today's papers and EU official guidance as my sources), you can all draw your own conclusions.  My opinion at the end, so you can ignore if you like.

France - borders are closed to UK tourists except essential travellers.  No date is available for reopening.  Yes, some pressure on Macron to open the tourist sector, but it will start with the French being able to holiday in France.  Second home owners in France have no timetable to be able to access their homes.  If its like Spain (announced today), the next easing of lockdown may require a quarantine of 14 days on arrival unless you are entitled to residency.

Germany - land borders to gradually reopen from tonight with Luxembourg first.  Controls on borders with France, Switzerland, Austria scheduled to open mid-June at the earliest.  At present, all arrivals to isolate for 14 days.  Note, this is different from holidaying.  Germany is in talks with neighbours including France and The Netherlands about allowing foreign holidays to resume by the end of summer.  Not clear that the UK is included though Germany favours an EU wide solution.

Switzerland - intends to start opening its borders with neighbouring countries middle of June.  Britons will have to wait longer but officials hope this will be possible before the end of summer.  While some hotels are opening soon, ski resorts are closed till 7 June at least.

Austria - border with Germany will open on 15 June and Swiss and Hungarian borders likely to open soon after.  Austria will accept a health certificate (a negative test no more than 4 days before arrival - so you would need to get that max 48 hours before leaving the UK), otherwise you quarantine for 14 days.  The priority for Austria is opening for German tourists, not the UK.

Italy - at present any visitor to Italy needs to self-isolate for 14 days.  While some cafes and beaches reopen on Monday, I can't find info on borders opening.

UK - From beginning June, you will need to quarantine for 14 days on return to the UK from anywhere in mainland Europe unless you are an essential traveller.  No end date specified.

 

My view, based on all that, is that there is almost zero chance of even a solo trip starting mid June and crossing France, Germany, Switzerland, Austria, Italy being feasible.  Could this improve?  Sure, but is that likely?  I think what people may be missing is that when we hear talk of borders opening, its not opening for tourism as usual, its selective opening.  We have truck drivers already allowed thru at certain controlled points, so borders are already slightly "open".  Those crossing points will presumably increase and the categories of crossings allowed thru will increase, but its not IMHO a return to free-for-all tourism.  See Germany above - borders open mid-June and tourism with neighbours end of summer.  Two different things.  It is really hard to get accurate info at the moment but it seems to me that the earliest that tourists can move freely across Europe will be end of summer not June and that the UK may be behind in that queue.  In all honesty, why would you give the UK any special or even pari passu treatment given it has the worst record in Europe dealing with CV19, has no community testing, has no idea if R is 0.5 or 1 and constantly makes up its stats.  And then there is Brexit... 

As I have said, I would love it to be different.  I remain positive, but reality is generally unmoved in the face of positivity.  Believe harder doesn't actually work :)   Happy to have alternative plans floated and people can join them if they want.  I have tried to objectively assess the facts available and plan accordingly, but with agility to adjust if reality is better or worse.  I have asked for opinions and given time for people to respond.  September seems a pretty good plan to me, but even that requires a bit of luck and for there not to be second waves and new lockdowns or a slowdown in the pace of easing.

Last point.  I only opened this trip up to IB folks because I thought it would be fun and because I thought it would be a nice thing to do (I already had a great group of euro-trippers and doing this has actually had the effect of putting some of them off joining because they don't fancy a bigger, unfamiliar group).  I love these trips and I don't get it why more people don't do them.  So this is all about trying to make it easy for anyone who is interested.  If 29 pages of me posting self-congratulatory nonsense and occasionally good information makes people think about doing a trip like this, then that's still a win. 

As always, my $0.02 and nothing more.  Fire away with comments.

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Just to add to the above for context. Spain restrictions currently planned until 22nd June (as of yesterday) are that Spanish citizens can only travel in their own sub area (ie Aragon residents can only travel in Zaragoza, Huesca, or Teruel not across Aragon or to other regions)

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I know I’m not going Rich, but irrespective of what the individual countries are doing regarding borders etc, surely the overriding criteria has got to be based on UK. FCO advice on travel because it is upon this that the validity of travel and breakdown Insurance cover will hinge. Sure you could rely on the EIHC option for the medical if you really want to risk it, but certainly not recommended in normal times let alone now.

hope you don’t mind me chipping in.

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I too agree with Richard that June will not happen, but Sept is a possibility.

In terms of numbers, the biggest Euro trip I organised was 19 cars to SPA and although great fun was had by all perhaps a tad too big as it took a lot of planning and a few lost cars on the way -  they did catch up in the end!

Normally our Euro trips are limited to between 6-12 cars (Classic Le Mans is an exception as we hire a complete Chateau for the week and its more of a social that driving holiday) this is easily manageable for hotels, restaurants, etc. also not to big so small side groups are created - everyone can chat to each other across the dinner table and at the bar afterwards!

If Sept is a go then I'd limit the numbers to 12 with the original attendees having first say, then its a first come server from there if people drop out.

I think this is fair even though it could mean that I can't attend. 

 

 

 

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22 minutes ago, GrahamTompkins said:

I know I’m not going Rich, but irrespective of what the individual countries are doing regarding borders etc, surely the overriding criteria has got to be based on UK. FCO advice on travel because it is upon this that the validity of travel and breakdown Insurance cover will hinge. Sure you could rely on the EIHC option for the medical if you really want to risk it, but certainly not recommended in normal times let alone now.

hope you don’t mind me chipping in.

The more the merrier. I noted travel insurance on the last page. You are right, without it I wouldn’t travel. 

16 minutes ago, Beaky said:

I too agree with Richard that June will not happen, but Sept is a possibility.

In terms of numbers, the biggest Euro trip I organised was 19 cars to SPA and although great fun was had by all perhaps a tad too big as it took a lot of planning and a few lost cars on the way -  they did catch up in the end!

Normally our Euro trips are limited to between 6-12 cars (Classic Le Mans is an exception as we hire a complete Chateau for the week and its more of a social that driving holiday) this is easily manageable for hotels, restaurants, etc. also not to big so small side groups are created - everyone can chat to each other across the dinner table and at the bar afterwards!

If Sept is a go then I'd limit the numbers to 12 with the original attendees having first say, then its a first come server from there if people drop out.

I think this is fair even though it could mean that I can't attend. 

 

 

 

Plan on the road will be sub groups of 4-6. I wouldn’t try to keep any more together. Even 6 can be a right handful. 

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6 minutes ago, Richard Bernau said:

Plan on the road will be sub groups of 4-6. I wouldn’t try to keep any more together. Even 6 can be a right handful. 

Walkie Talkies?

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Illegal in most parts. Cost us EUR100 last trip and a police chase for some.  You need a hands free bluetooth headset with the walkie talkie. Our wired but still hands free headsets were not good enough. Despite our failing Spanish arguments. We reverted to keeping them in the door pockets and using them sparingly and entirely not hands free. Unintended consequence!

They are undoubtedly very handy but not essential if people keep up and pay attention to the sat nav. :) 

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14 hours ago, Richard Bernau said:

Illegal in most parts. Cost us EUR100 last trip and a police chase for some.  

Wow, we have never had any issues, speed related maybe but not walkie talkies:whistling:

A few years back they opened up more frequencies which we tuned into and get a lot less interference.

 

 

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Spanish cops fined us for using a mobile without hands free, so far as we could understand.  But they just wanted an instant fine from each of us.  It was BS, but they insisted it was illegal, so what are you going to do.  We were once before warned that it was illegal in France but legal in Spain by a French border cop.  So who knows if its actually illegal or all just made up.

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4 hours ago, Richard Bernau said:

Spanish cops fined us for using a mobile without hands free, so far as we could understand.  But they just wanted an instant fine from each of us.  It was BS, but they insisted it was illegal, so what are you going to do.  We were once before warned that it was illegal in France but legal in Spain by a French border cop.  So who knows if its actually illegal or all just made up.

Note to self, ensure you have a fluid speaking, French and Spanish person on Euro trips to said countries..........................

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2 hours ago, Beaky said:

Note to self, ensure you have a fluid speaking, French and Spanish person on Euro trips to said countries..........................

We tend to make do with a resident German speaker :signs118:

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He is also our fall guy when we need someone to go first thru borders and take all the heat for looking like a drug dealer or smuggler.  Gets stopped and inspected at almost every opportunity IIRC.

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1 hour ago, Richard Bernau said:

He is also our fall guy when we need someone to go first thru borders and take all the heat for looking like a drug dealer or smuggler.  Gets stopped and inspected at almost every opportunity IIRC.

He does a very good job of taking the heat of the rest of the convoy 👍

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1 hour ago, World Citizen said:

He does a very good job of taking the heat of the rest of the convoy 👍

Do we ply him with beer before or afterwards!

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On 13/05/2020 at 10:27, Richard Bernau said:

I think the message is that everyone is cancelling June, but there is radio silence from some of you.  Suggest anyone who is dead set on trying to travel in June and who wants to keep reservations needs to shout now to avoid unintended consequences.

 

Thanks Richard,

I haven't contacted any of the hotels yet, been a bit inundated, but I wish to cancel everything please. I'm not even sure if I'm part of any of your bookings, but in the event that is the case then I'm letting you know, and apologies for not being clear about this earlier.

Really appreciate your efforts in this, and looking forward to making the trip whenever we do eventually do it... likely next summer the way things are looking at the moment I imagine.

Thanks again Rich,

Ravi  

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On 18/05/2020 at 17:16, Richard Bernau said:

He is also our fall guy when we need someone to go first thru borders and take all the heat for looking like a drug dealer or smuggler.  Gets stopped and inspected at almost every opportunity IIRC.

Yes, I do have a habit of drawing unwanted attention for some curious reason. ;)

Borders are indeed opening up again here on the 15th June, but normality is still some way off. Because the roads are emptier on the continent the boys in blue have focussed their attention even more on speeding. Lots of prison sentences being handed out at the moment. Also group sizes wherever one goes are restricted.

Tourist areas have been shut down every now and then, due to overcrowding. Everyone has more or less accepted that holidays will be in their own country this year without much travelling.

So all in all, let us hope things are good for September to such an extent that we get the all clear. 

I’m certainly itching for a decent road trip.

 

 

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29 minutes ago, heckschleuderer said:

Yes, I do have a habit of drawing unwanted attention for some curious reason. ;)

 

 

I think its the leather man-bag 😎

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On 14/05/2020 at 09:42, Richard Bernau said:

Proposal - meet in Switzerland on 12th Sept.  Programme would be -

- 12/9 Amden, Hotel Sonne
- 13/9 Biberweir, MyTirol
- 14/9 Mühlbach am Hochkönig, Hotel Bergheimat
- 15/9 St Vigil, Sporthotel
- 16/9 Pontresina, Chesa Mulin etc
- 17/9 Weggis, Hotel Central am See
- 18/9 Bischwihr, Relais du Ried

Can I ask again - are these definitely the new dates?

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On 22/05/2020 at 16:28, Chris_911 said:

Can I ask again - are these definitely the new dates?

And the answer was?

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10 hours ago, Beaky said:

And the answer was?

Good question - I'm just trying to establish whether I'm definitely out.

I may plan to go solo during the week commencing 14th Sept.

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  • 2 weeks later...

SMALL UPDATE

I am going to email the hotels and see if they can accommodate a few rooms for that 12th to 18th period.  If I have time, I am going to try to sweep for border info/updates and see what hard data I can find.  UK quarantine is a joke and will be quietly dropped after 3 weeks, so at least that concern has somewhat fallen away.  FCO guidance not to travel unless essential remains an impediment, but dollars for donuts, PM will ease as soon as politically feasible (not safety or science led) in the context of the asymmetric "if you won't us in, we won't let you in" nonsense.

In terms of profile on the roads, I can't really see this as a "convoy", but its nice to see people at breakfast, lunch and the end of the day.

I am pretty much committed to doing my own thing now.  I will keep you guys posted, but I will go when I see an opportunity and if that means a trip of one then I am fine with that.  September is still plan A, but with a lot of flexibility.

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