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1 hour ago, World Citizen said:

you're a worrier Mark, RB know his stuff with trips like this, he's got nothing else do while he waits for Brexit so has plenty of time for tweaking the plan (the drive, not Brexit ^_^)

RB, I had a quick google for somewhere near Salzburg, we stayed at a nice family run hotel near Bad Hofgastein, might be a bit out off route but we really enjoyed a spot of gold panning

I'm far from a worrier, my path is well travelled,  I like an adventure :)

Colmar (like most of Alsace) is a lovely area to stay in. Great wine and beer too :)  I can recommend Ribeauville as a cool smallish town to stay in. Hotel we had was secure parking too. An old French guy used to lift his sash window every morning and berate my car reverberating off the town walls :D

 

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I will try to be objective (I have used today's papers and EU official guidance as my sources), you can all draw your own conclusions.  My opinion at the end, so you can ignore if you like. Franc

or you could try keeping your left wing sniping bullsh*t out of a car forum  and a thread for a trip that you aren't involved with.

A nice cup of Tea and some cake anyone.............................................  

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2 hours ago, Ian Comerford said:

I think that’s what I meant in saying he’s sort of German,  oops does that mean he might not be very good?

Luckily I’ve got the positive attributes of both nationalities. 

Efficient, broad minded and a sense of humour.

....ah yes, humility is from the German side 

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2 hours ago, heckschleuderer said:

Luckily I’ve got the positive attributes of both nationalities. 

Efficient, broad minded and a sense of humour.

....ah yes, humility is from the German side 

Good response!

You can stay

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5 hours ago, Ian Comerford said:

I think that’s what I meant in saying he’s sort of German,  oops does that mean he might not be very good?

 

3 hours ago, heckschleuderer said:

Luckily I’ve got the positive attributes of both nationalities. 

Efficient, broad minded and a sense of humour.

....ah yes, humility is from the German side 

I think you should probably stop going to those nudist camps though Gordon.

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Just google mapped the route 😎 

I can recommend a stunning hotel in Zouz for your St Moritz evening stop

Might be at the top end of the accommodation budget but easily my favourite hotel in the world https://www.hotelcastell.ch/ secure parking, also has a hammam spa with a gold pool and eucalyptus steam room, great bar and pool room

My family and I found it to be the perfect place to end a long, hot driving day in the 930, did the tight, slow Stelvio (a famous but not really a drivers pass) and faster but gravelled Umbrail Pass on our way there

Edited by World Citizen
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6 hours ago, World Citizen said:

gravelled Umbrail Pass on our way there

Not gravelled any more... I quite liked it, unlike the Stelvio which is a bit rubbish :twocents:

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This looks like a brilliant idea…but I don’t usually have enough holiday to go for a drive when the passes are open.

For reasons too dull to go int here, it looks like I might <<crosses fingers>> have a window of opportunity in July this year (some time between the 7th and the 26th) to make penance for the pitiful 2,000kms a year I have done for the last 5 years.

I have a natural inclination to stay to the west as this also means that I can potter around Eze for a few days at the end…and maybe Mrs EJH will fly down for these few days.  The rough route I have been pondering looks like the below (although the actual splits by day have yet to be determined) and I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts as to:

- What truly obvious mistakes I might have made on this (planned from a computer and looking at organised tours) 
- What tools are best for route planning (have been using google maps for laziness but know not ideal) and
- If the passes are truly as bad as they’re said to be at weekends (and, as such, if they really are weekday only)?

Any advice would be gratefully received (and apologies for mild derailment)

Screen Shot 2019-06-16 at 12.59.20.png

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Great route! Not quite sure what’s going on around Bormio-Umbrail-Livigno, (which side of the Stelvio and up or down the Umbrail?) nor how to get from Livigno to St Moritz.

I Use AA Routeplanner and sometimes viamichelin for route lengths and times. 

Stelvio on the east side is likely to be busy on a weekend. Bonette is the highest so may not be open. It was foggy when I did it so no views....😥

Edited by Dr Rock
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If truth be told, I'm not that sure either as I started planning this in 2016.  I need to re-plot and ponder.

I have no idea re: "sensible number of miles to do per day," so tried to keep it to a sensible number for enjoying and being able to stop and look and stuff if I so desire...and is a total guess!

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aft

1 hour ago, Dr Rock said:

Great route! Not quite sure what’s going on around Bormio-Umbrail-Livigno, (which side of the Stelvio and up or down the Umbrail?) nor how to get from Livigno to St Moritz.

...Bonette is the highest so may not be open...

I have no idea what I was thinking in the earlier draft (I wrote that in ~Feb 2016 so can barely remember it) and hopefully the below makes more sense.

Now to sense check the rest of it...

Bonette is a bit of a punt but, hopefully it'll be open in July.  Quite curious to go and have a look as I have been there a few times before...but skiing over it, as opposed to driving it.

 

 

Screen Shot 2019-06-16 at 14.45.44.png

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1 hour ago, EJH911 said:

I have no idea re: "sensible number of miles to do per day," so tried to keep it to a sensible number for enjoying and being able to stop and look and stuff 

Somewhere around 150 to 200 miles a day is nice and relaxed and easy - I've done a 400+ mile day and it was a bit much. Only just made the hotel for dinner...

Remember, in the mountains you are going slower, probably not due to you, more due to cyclists/traffic/camper vans etc. And those mountain  passes are a lot longer than you think they are. The Bonnette is along way up and a long way down with no way out: once you commit, yo are there for the duration.

Stelvio is one you tick off as it is the Top Gear road, and it is impressive, but you have much better driving passes on your route...

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1 hour ago, EJH911 said:

aft

I have no idea what I was thinking in the earlier draft (I wrote that in ~Feb 2016 so can barely remember it) and hopefully the below makes more sense.

Now to sense check the rest of it...

Bonette is a bit of a punt but, hopefully it'll be open in July.  Quite curious to go and have a look as I have been there a few times before...but skiing over it, as opposed to driving it.

 

 

Screen Shot 2019-06-16 at 14.45.44.png

 Skiiing has over Bonette?

Where?

Great road!

Edited by anglophone1
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1 hour ago, Dr Rock said:

Somewhere around 150 to 200 miles a day is nice and relaxed and easy - I've done a 400+ mile day and it was a bit much. Only just made the hotel for dinner...

Remember, in the mountains you are going slower, probably not due to you, more due to cyclists/traffic/camper vans etc. And those mountain  passes are a lot longer than you think they are. The Bonnette is along way up and a long way down with no way out: once you commit, yo are there for the duration.

Stelvio is one you tick off as it is the Top Gear road, and it is impressive, but you have much better driving passes on your route...

^^^ totally agree. 

I use garmin basecamp to plan routes. It is not hugely user friendly but it does work once you get to grips with it. Let’s you add as many waypoints as you like and you can just drag the route around where you want it. Then you also have the total Kilometres and the driving time for each day or half day depending how you structure it just a click away.

Critically, you can then save each “list” to a separate file and upload to a garmin satnav giving you a separate route for each day or half day. Many tomtoms don’t let you do this and nor do incar OEM satnavs. Hence why garmin are the default choice on our trips. 

To really check the roads out you need to look over them in google maps satellite pics or google earth for bits you really want to check out. 

How far per day is very personal but once you have driving times for each route you can easily work out if it’s too much or too little. By myself,I will do 6 or 7hrs a day or more as a one off, but that is the upper limit for a group and too much for some. 

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11 minutes ago, Richard Bernau said:

To really check the roads out you need to look over them in google maps satellite pics or google earth for bits you really want to check out. 

Or you can just ask me :signs71:

Remember, Google street view doesn't work in Austria and chunks of Germany :rant_yellow:

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49 minutes ago, anglophone1 said:

The last day may be a little overlong IMO😎

Could well be: I did this day below on Broadsword thread and it was long:

"Yesterday I did the route the Porsche Peloton were supposed to do but didn't due to mishaps: down the Rhone valley, over the Grand St Bernard pass, over the Petit St Bernard pass, up to Val D'Isere and over the Col de L'Iseran and then the Col du Telegraph and Galibier, before descending the Col du Lautaret. Big day, 8 hours in the saddle, 285 miles."

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13 minutes ago, Dr Rock said:

Could well be: I did this day below on Broadsword thread and it was long:

"Yesterday I did the route the Porsche Peloton were supposed to do but didn't due to mishaps: down the Rhone valley, over the Grand St Bernard pass, over the Petit St Bernard pass, up to Val D'Isere and over the Col de L'Iseran and then the Col du Telegraph and Galibier, before descending the Col du Lautaret. Big day, 8 hours in the saddle, 285 miles."

1 hour ago, anglophone1 said:

The last day may be a little overlong IMO😎

 

I'm inclined to agree.  Latest iteration has a couple of the days slightly compressed to just over 200 miles which, as would be doing alone, I'm comfortable with.
 
- One could be shortened by 55 miles by doing the Oberalp Pass instead of the San Bernadino Pass (if needs be...I think I want to do SB, however)
- One (to Val d’isere) is long but has both St Bernards in it…and I have done bits of that before and am comfortable at ~220 miles for the day
 
I think the last day is better cut in half with a stop in Gap overnight before doing CdB.  Now I just need to find the time for the drive!

 

 

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