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Fuel lines - go original or uprated?


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BB - My brother bought a plating kit for the 928, have to say the results are impressive despite being a bit of a faff. You have all these vats of various washes/ chemicals - you know, just like the kit you use to knock up a bit of crystal meth for the weekend.

Leics - are you referring to the 044 trend?

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14 hours ago, Northy said:

I don’t know OJT.  I had a single line made up for my fuel pressure gauges and it was £50.  The fitting was the expensive bit. 

This is what the US chap said:

I make replacement flexible lines if your hard lines need replacing. If they’re not rusty they’re probably fine. 
 
The lines I use are teflon lined and are impervious to all grades and concentrations and of ethanol. They’re a permanent solution. 
 
I do not have photos of the lines installed, but here is the complete kit:
 
16241748-AE89-4918-878B-1D6A6F7413CF.thumb.jpeg.100e5b3ed76ee8d77c41f32f235d2dcf.jpeg
 
I might speak to Earl’s and see if they can do anything. 
 

Whilst an appreciable sum of money I'm not looking at the figures quoted as 'expensive'.

There is quite a lot of individual parts in that image. Man time to build, material costs and the knowledge to do it all so doesn't seem expensive to me.

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@Chris_911  I tend to agree.  What I meant was, looking at the invoice it was the actual alloy fitting that was the expensive part, not the pipes and there are a lot of fittings in these kits.  With something so important I want a bit of reassurance it's not going to fail - which is a cause for reluctance to home brew a kit and not just put the factory stuff on. 

The 044 runs the same pressure as a standard SC fuel pump.  My change was more around the recommendations for superior reliability of the 044.  But, the pressures should be no different.  After fettling, mine is 5 bar which is what the factory suggests for a standard pump.  Not sure what a 3.2 runs; less I think. 

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54 minutes ago, R2D2 said:

BB - My brother bought a plating kit for the 928, have to say the results are impressive despite being a bit of a faff. You have all these vats of various washes/ chemicals - you know, just like the kit you use to knock up a bit of crystal meth for the weekend.

I've looked at them a few times, the plating kits. Look like a faff but shiny stuff comes out so all's forgiven. A bit of a Walt on the side eh R2? I struggle to not mix the grape and the grain so messing with proper chemicals would freak me out! Plating kit maybe not such a good idea 😂🤕

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Joking about the meth reference obviously! Evil stuff. 

We had some fuel hoses made up at Pirtek for the 928 using the old hard fittings - not cheap IIRC but might be worth getting a few quotes before shipping funds abroad?

 

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Just now, R2D2 said:

Joking about the meth reference obviously! Evil stuff. 

We had some fuel hoses made up at Pirtek for the 928 using the old hard fittings - not cheap IIRC but might be worth getting a few quotes before shipping funds abroad?

 

They put some fittings on for gauges - problem was they didn't have many metric ones.   

I will hawk it around a bit in the UK first. Has anyone got a set of SC fuel lines that can be used as a template? I don't really want to take mine off and have the car disabled for a few weeks. 

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1 hour ago, R2D2 said:

Joking about the meth reference obviously! Evil stuff. 

Damn, back to the crack pipe for me then 😜

These lines do look like a lot of work. Was it definitely these that failed on your car @Dr Rock? I'd imagine the fittings bought in bulk somewhere would reduce the price and the actual pipework can't be a lot of money. From one template, a group buy might save quite a bit of money? 

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4 hours ago, Northy said:

@Chris_911  I tend to agree.  What I meant was, looking at the invoice it was the actual alloy fitting that was the expensive part, not the pipes and there are a lot of fittings in these kits.  With something so important I want a bit of reassurance it's not going to fail - which is a cause for reluctance to home brew a kit and not just put the factory stuff on. 

The 044 runs the same pressure as a standard SC fuel pump.  My change was more around the recommendations for superior reliability of the 044.  But, the pressures should be no different.  After fettling, mine is 5 bar which is what the factory suggests for a standard pump.  Not sure what a 3.2 runs; less I think. 

Out of the box, the 044 is rated at 11 bar (almost 160 psi). 

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1 hour ago, Leicestershire said:

Out of the box, the 044 is rated at 11 bar (almost 160 psi). 

I stand corrected then.  You're right it is capable of that level of flow.   

I don't really know what I'm talking about here, but surely it's not actually putting 11bar through the fuel system? I would have thought pressure only builds to that level if you have a blockage - the return will bleed off any additional fuel flow above 5 bar back to the tank?  I might be talking out of my arrrr5e, but that's how I understood it working.  So it's shouldn't actually be pressurising at 11bar at any point. 

 

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Don’t confuse flow and pressure.

11 bar is the pressure, 300 litres per hour is the peek flow. At 11 bar the volume delivered drops off but back to my original post the whole system need designed correctly.

The pressure regulator is a component that is matched to a specific output - flow & pressure  (most are getting on for 40 years old as they don’t get checked or changed unless a fault appears). The bore, number of bends and length of the delivery pipe needs to be matched to the pump to ensure adequate flow without fighting against the pump. Fuel accumulator etc.

Start with a fuel delivery requirement and work backwards. Never a gambler but would wager that the spec for the standard fuel pump is adequate for 99.9% of cars with license plates.

 

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Since this is likely to be an increasing issue for our cars, I would imagine there is enough demand to create a group purchase (or build for that matter) of suitable fuel lines.

How many sets could be easily established, the who maybe more difficult

 

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8 hours ago, Beaky said:

Since this is likely to be an increasing issue for our cars, I would imagine there is enough demand to create a group purchase (or build for that matter) of suitable fuel lines.

How many sets could be easily established, the who maybe more difficult

 

Well I would be up for a group buy.

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2 hours ago, Phill said:

Do these kits above include the flow and return from the tank?

Wouldn't have thought so. They are close to £400 for a pair new from OPC I think. I have a pair I bought on here if anyone wants a pair. I won't be using them. Need to ends cleaning up and plaiting or replacing for the new look. £50. 

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Late to the party, but this issue of deteriorating fuel lines cropped up on my radar when I did my intake years ago.  I looked at the OE parts and seeing the prices decided a better solution could be found.  I took all the lines off (hard and soft) in one piece and took them to Pirtek and got all the soft lines replaced with braided hose using crimped fittings.  As much as OJT says its easy to do your own, I found it to be near impossible.  Pirtek were fairly reasonable on price IIRC and you are future proof and pressure proof if 044 pump swap contemplated - as I did.

When putting back together I had the pressure reg fail.  Catastrophically.  And leak fuel everywhere as I tried to start the car - so beware of that.  I got a used one from JAZ and all was good.

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I popped in to Fenn Lane this evening on the way back from MIRA to see what Chris thought about this.  After veering off topic quite a few times he agreed that he could be interested in developing hose kits for our cars.  He understands the ethanol issue and also where to source the right hose it seems.  He thought he had a set of SC hoses to copy but not 3.2 ones (I assumed they were different). I said I would send him the detail behind the kit available from the States and he would have a look next week.  Don’t hold your breath

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25 minutes ago, Ian Comerford said:

I popped in to Fenn Lane this evening on the way back from MIRA to see what Chris thought about this.  After veering off topic quite a few times he agreed that he could be interested in developing hose kits for our cars.  He understands the ethanol issue and also where to source the right hose it seems.  He thought he had a set of SC hoses to copy but not 3.2 ones (I assumed they were different). I said I would send him the detail behind the kit available from the States and he would have a look next week.  Don’t hold your breath

Good work Sir.  👍

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13 minutes ago, Northy said:

Good work Sir.  👍

Like I said, don’t hold your breath.  I’ve sent Chris some pictures and links from Pelican so will see what he comes back with  next week.  He said that whilst he might be happy to make kits of pipes he wouldn’t be interested in fitting them as he was too busy

How to the SC ones differ with regard to the 3.2s?  Any idea?

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Just checked on PET and it looks like the SC ones go full length from the pump to the engine bay.  Chris seemed to think that IB ones are steel lines in the tunnel but this doesn’t look right.  What are 3.2s like?

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Pretty sure the 3.2 ones are a hard plastic line running through the centre tunnel & are a bit of a PITA to replace with a suitably ridiculous cost.

The danger element seems to be the flexi pipes in the engine bay for obvious reasons. Even if the plastic pipes at the front or centre tunnel failed, it would be a bloody nuisance but unlikely to end catastrophically.

As far as the Fenn Lane ones go, well, I would pencil in 2020 sometime at best mmm... If you are in a desperate hurry then I'd probably look elsewhere.

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3.2s are plastic/nylon type - as mentioned, mine were in excellent condition after 30 odd years, its was just the connectors that were done for.

I think I have my old 3.2 engine bay fuel lines in my lock up - could be used as template if anyone wants to borrow them.

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9 hours ago, ALEX P said:

 

As far as the Fenn Lane ones go, well, I would pencil in 2020 sometime at best mmm... If you are in a desperate hurry then I'd probably look elsewhere.

Agreed Alex, hence my comment about don’t hold your breath.  But you never know....

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