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Busybee

Track day wheels and tyres

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Just in case the track day bug bites (read as bitten), what are decent track day wheel and tyres you racing snakes use? R888’s? 

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Think 888s are the best upgrade for a track day as a starting point - once up to temp they give you so much 'get out of jail'

 

(to be clear - my track day altercation with a wall was due to a distinct lack of talent, not to tyre choice!!)

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😂 thanks. Need a set of track wheels then a set of track tyres. 

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Trouble with the R888 now is they are only available in R88R format which has an awful tread pattern now with one side pointing forwards and the other backwards - aesthetically a dogs dinner but I just cant help thinking its also a bit odd from a grip perspective in the wet.

I would actually suggest not getting R compound tyres at the start of your trackday career as you will learn much more about car control at slightly slower speeds with some standard road tyres, once they become the limit of your laptimes then swap to some R compounds.

 

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22 minutes ago, jevvy said:

Trouble with the R888 now is they are only available in R88R format which has an awful tread pattern now with one side pointing forwards and the other backwards - aesthetically a dogs dinner but I just cant help thinking its also a bit odd from a grip perspective in the wet.

I would actually suggest not getting R compound tyres at the start of your trackday career as you will learn much more about car control at slightly slower speeds with some standard road tyres, once they become the limit of your laptimes then swap to some R compounds.

 

I’m also bothered by the asymmetry of the R888Rs but apparently they are great in the dry... I have a new set ready to try on the track soon 😀

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Yoko AD08R look good as a hybrid - seem to be universally praised.

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26 minutes ago, SP72 said:

Yoko AD08R look good as a hybrid - seem to be universally praised.

They do look cool Shirish. 

20 minutes ago, jevvy said:

Nope. That’ll keep me quiet for a few hours. 

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Sizes will be your limiting factor if you are looking for 16s.  Looking at Camskill, if you want 245 rears then its V70As or Toyos only.  Money no object, I would get a set of PZero Corsas and rap them round a set of custom offset Image 3 piece wheels in the style of your choice.  They do a 3 piece Fuchs-a-like and a BBS-a-like.  A bit cheaper would be a set of Braids.

Unlike Jevvy, I would jump on the R bandwagon and go for it.  They are just more fun and pretty much as forgiving, so long as its dry.  If you could get something like a Michie Supersport in the size I would just go with that as they are nearly as good as Rs, but you can't.  I get Jev's argument and he is right, but I would still get Rs.  With your suspension set up - spring rate, damper valving, ARB size, camber and car weight - it comes alive on Rs on the track.  From experience it works very well and I found 245/45 + 225/45 Toyos to be ideal.

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If going down the R tyre path my preference would be V70’s - hard rear with medium front. 

Would agree with Jevvy, start with a durable road tyre and learn how a 911 behaves on track at manageable speeds before you need to find out how to catch it when moving at 110%.

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Personal experience on track is with Federal 595RSR and r888. RSR were very progressive and slip nicely when you break traction, unlike the r888 which tend to have a touch more grip, but then completely let go.  

If you're looking purely for track you could go up a size in wheel to 17" then the world is your oyster. 

Plenty of other R compounds out there in 17".

I agree with Richard, punt for the R compounds. When on road tyres I was constantly hitting the temp thresholds and getting all sorts of gripless understeer/oversteer, then pounding the brakes just to scrub speed - getting brake fade etc. Decent set of R compounds and track pads, job jobbed :)

 

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Thanks chaps. Can 17’s fit on an ib? Love a set of gold centre bbs wheels 😍 with some seriously sticky rubber. 

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10 hours ago, Busybee said:

Can 17’s fit on an ib?

Yes.

You fit lower profile tyres so the overall diameter stays the same (ish) as the 16's but as mentioned above the range of tyres increases.

Otto Fuchs are nice and light but their offset seems to be more geared towards 964/993 stuff which would mean chunky spacers.
https://www.fuchsfelge.com/en/wheel-program/detail/porsche-911-exklusiv-schmiederad-374.html

Image do some nice forged stuff that you can spec the exact offset and barrel sizes
https://www.imagewheels.co.uk/three-piece-billet-alloy-wheels/

Of course there is BBS to hunt down but they are mucho-deniro.

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Useful list of fuchs reps:

https://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/669569-lets-catalogue-all-fuchs-repros.html

https://rennlist.com/forums/wheel-and-tire-forum/780707-let-s-catalogue-all-the-fuchs-repros.html

Quote

The Original:

Otto Fuchs: Some original sizes still produced in batches (contact your dealer parts desk for info). I think these are the sizes still in production. I cannot say if these are constructed the same way as original equipment.


Replicas:

Braid: 15"-18" at various widths and offsets. Cast, unsure if center is welded to rolled lip. BRAID and Pelican Parts

California Import Parts LTD.: 15" and 17". Note the different available bolt patterns. CIP

Design911: 15".

EB Motorsport: 15". EB Motorsport

Euromeister: 16" and 17". Made in China. Read report of one breaking. Pelican Parts

Fifteen52: 15"-18". 52 Outlaw

Fikse: 17" and 18". 3-piece with hidden hardware. Originally designed by Zuffenhaus, now produced by Fikse. Fikse Wheels

Flat 4: 15". Flat 4

Fuchs Performance: 19". Fuchs Performance Wheels.

German Diamonds: 17" to 21" between two styles. Diamond R�der

Group 4 Wheels: 15" ('67 R sizes). Group 4 Wheels

Image Wheels: 15"-22." Image Wheels

Iozzio Wheels: 17". Iozzio Wheels

Jongbloed Racing for Accumoto: 15"-17". 3 piece. Accumoto Motorsport 

Kerscher: 17"-18". Kercher-Tuning.

Lindsey Racing: 17"? Donor centers. Lindsey Racing

Maxilite: 15" and 16". Maxilite

OS-Design: 19". Wheel Dynamics.

Otto Fuchs: 17"-19" high offset. Forged. According to H. Weidman via the Early S Registry, these are not 3D forged but milled from a forged cylinder. Otto Fuchs

Rebel Racing Products: 17". Donor centers. Rebel Racing Products

Rota: 17". Made in Phillipines. Also known as Linea Corse. Read report of one breaking IIRC. PelicanParts.

Rotiform: 17"-22". Rotiform Wheels

RS-Felgen: 15"-17", and 19"-20". RS-Felgen - FUX and RS-Felgen - FUX 19

Speedline for Porsche: 19". Cast. Available from your dealer parts desk or at Wheelenhancement

SSP: 15" and 17". Note only some are T�V approved, unsure why. SSP Wheels.

Starke Design: 16", 18" and 19". Cast. Tire Rack

Tramont: 15"-20" between two styles. Possibly magnesium centers? Tramont Wheels

TRE Motorsports: 15". 3-piece versions NLA? TRE Motorsports

 

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Awesome @jevvy. Thanks. That’s a whole day looking at wheels 👍

If I go 17’s, the rubber will be serious thin. Already on 245/45/16 on the backs. 

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5 minutes ago, Busybee said:

If I go 17’s, the rubber will be serious thin. Already on 245/45/16 on the backs. 

Not necessarily, you can use a tool like this to play with some wheel widths and tyre sizes.

https://www.wheel-size.com/calc/?wheel1=245-45-16X9ET15&wheel2=255-40-17X9ET15&fcl=50mm&wcl=30mm&scl=50mm&sr=0mm

Going to 255/40/17 increases overall diameter by 1.4% but you still have a 40 series sidewall.

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49 minutes ago, jevvy said:

Of course there is BBS to hunt down but they are mucho-deniro.

Original RS period BBS, 7 & 9 x 16 with V70A track tyres, Mmmmmm...

IMAG0384.thumb.jpg.3cd2c10f294bac8b6b1b81fbf8783d56.jpg

Gratuitous "in use" pic :cool:

CH_190523_BH_Eve_0672.thumb.jpg.67dae04aa00600278257ef2369284b49.jpg

Mark

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44 minutes ago, jevvy said:

Not necessarily, you can use a tool like this to play with some wheel widths and tyre sizes.

https://www.wheel-size.com/calc/?wheel1=245-45-16X9ET15&wheel2=255-40-17X9ET15&fcl=50mm&wcl=30mm&scl=50mm&sr=0mm

Going to 255/40/17 increases overall diameter by 1.4% but you still have a 40 series sidewall.

Cheers Jev.

24 minutes ago, SilverWT said:

Original RS period BBS, 7 & 9 x 16 with V70A track tyres, Mmmmmm...

IMAG0384.thumb.jpg.3cd2c10f294bac8b6b1b81fbf8783d56.jpg

Gratuitous "in use" pic :cool:

CH_190523_BH_Eve_0672.thumb.jpg.67dae04aa00600278257ef2369284b49.jpg

Mark

Look fab. Look even better on my car! 😂😜

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Bit off on the perspective but I do like them 

image wheels.jpg

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Fuchs for comparison 

67927586_10219789552157045_2465196058355957760_o.jpg

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17s are better for tyre choice for sure.  You get into something like the Nankangs (which are excellent) in 235/40 and 255/40 for much less money than 16 inch rubber.  You can get a BBS-E88-alike from Image wheels, custom offset and gold centres for semi sensible money.  Perkles always used to say that if you visited Image in the Midlands and offered cash, you could get a great deal...

It costs EUR2200 just for 4 E88 aluminium centres for BBS now, so I hate to think what the wheels are.

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