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Targa Roof Clips


ajp

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Hi

I’m just making some new threaded plates behind the targa roof clips (can’t find them to buy anywhere). Of my 8 clips, only the 2 front middle ones have an extra sprung steel plate. Does anyone know if this is correct or should there be more?  None of the parts diagrams I can find online are very clear.

Thanks very much!

Angus

 

98C627DC-E61B-49E7-BE9F-A07E1A412EF0.jpeg

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I see you have the late targa top with the roller latches. I was getting a fair bit of wind noise with a freshly refurbished top and two things helped.

I removed the extra "P" shaped seal glued to the vertical face of the header rail. The presence of the seal seems to puzzle people - it was added to a couple of model years and then taken away again. Consensus seems to be it doesn't help and just makes the job harder for the latches to pull the top down below the header rail and thus out of the airflow.

I replaced the latches. Expensive little blighters but they made a significant difference in how far the roof is pulled down - car is now much quieter. Old latches are mechanically needlessly complex; the new style is much simpler and had noticeably less play.

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Thanks very much. Your second post confirms that 4 are required which will probably stop the cross bar rattling as much. 

I have just recovered my roof and I reinstalled that ‘p’ strip which does seem to prevent the roof pulling down. I’ll remove it. As for new latches, they are adjusted as low as they can go so I guess you’re right and I need to renew them. 

Thanks again for taking the time to help. 

Angus

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When you open the top the cross bars should be a bit difficult to move the last couple of cm as they tension the top and you should feel them pop into place as they go over centre. If you can press them into place too easily the tension within the top is not right.

There's a thread on pelican about someone who fabricated a carbon fibre rod to put in the middle of the top from front to back between the hinges when the top is open. IMHO this is a bodge for an incorrectly rebuilt or tired top and shouldn't be required.

 

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The P shaped seal was glued to the vertical face of the windscreen header rail. You can see it in the photo below (nicked from Pelican). I believe it was fitted from 87 to 89 or thereabouts and then dropped.

IMG_04801481300664.jpg

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5 minutes ago, GrahamTompkins said:

I had a late 89 Targa, and it certainly wasn’t like that. No problems with wind noise or roof fit either .

Sorry, wasn't like what?

Roof fit and wind noise gets worse over time as the latches wear and the webbing and fabric within the targa top stretch and sag.

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5 minutes ago, sopor said:

Sorry, wasn't like what?

Roof fit and wind noise gets worse over time as the latches wear and the webbing and fabric within the targa top stretch and sag.

Sorry like the one in the photo..I’ve been looking but don’t have any pictures with the right angle ..best I can find..

02777637-0AEF-4241-ABE5-632DE1A79548.jpeg

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Don't you start! 😉 I've owned my targa for 6 years and the only time I've had to use the top in anger was on that Welsh trip. Where I discovered on the way home that at 70mph and above the wind noise was pretty bad.

I had the roof rebuilt by Southbound about 2 years ago and they recommended replacing the latches. I finally did so and it helped a fair bit. Also removed the P shaped seal.

They don't just recover it; they completely rebuild it including taking the frame apart, getting it bead blasted and refinished and replacing the outer skin as well as the internal webbing and fabric as well as the headliner.

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1 minute ago, sopor said:

Don't you start! 😉 I've owned my targa for 6 years and the only time I've had to use the top in anger was on that Welsh trip. Where I discovered on the way home that at 70mph and above the wind noise was pretty bad.

I had the roof rebuilt by Southbound about 2 years ago and they recommended replacing the latches. I finally did so and it helped a fair bit. Also removed the P shaped seal.

They don't just recover it; they completely rebuild it including taking the frame apart, getting it bead blasted and refinished and replacing the outer skin as well as the internal webbing and fabric as well as the headliner.

😂😂 Wanna test weathertightness, come to Wales.

Mine is noisy above 70mph too. Southbound eh. Big bucks but a job properly done.

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P shaped seal is not factory, looks like a DIY bodge to cut down wind noise by filling the forward edge because the roof doesnt slope down under the windscreen frame as it should. Targas are for sunny days!

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OK, we were both half right!

Its a Technical Service Item;

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/675498-targa-noise-anyone-uses-extra-seal.html

Not fitted at factory but was available to install later

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Both Southbound and to Dan Pechtel (targa top guru in the US) told me it was factory fitted in the late 80s. It also appears in the PET for the late G body cars but is now NLA from Porsche.

But any which way the general consensus seems to be that it it can contribute to pushing the leading edge of the top up above the car's header rail which creates wind noise.

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Hard to know what the logic was behind short term fitting of that seal.

Somewhat conjecture on my part... if a top is new or correctly rebuilt and the latches aren't worn and are adjusted properly the leading edge of the top will be below the car's windscreen head rail and wind noise from this area at "normal" road speeds will be minimal. The P shaped seal is belt and braces and might help if there are slight gaps in the horizontal direction along the join, particularly at higher speeds. But as the top starts to sag with age and use and as the latches wear the P shared seal prevents the top from being pulled down below the header rail and creates a bigger problem than the one it was intended to solve.

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6 minutes ago, ajp said:

I’ve taken mine off and it’s made no noticeable difference. Probably down to my original (worn?) latches. 

Can you post some side-on photos of the join between the car's windscreen header rail and the targa top? Like the one below?

Have you tried adjusting the position of the latches in the top frame? They're held in by three hex head screws -  with the top off the car you can try loosening the screws a turn, pushing the latch as high as it will go in the frame and tightening them down again. You might need to do this with the keys in place; it may be possible to adjust the latch position so far as to be unable to get the keys in.

IMG_0879.JPG

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I adjusted the latches as low as they can go a while ago. My roof seam sits higher than in your photo. The (new) front seal was replaced after a respray and is sitting quite high. I’m going to remove it and see if I can seat it lower with a thin layer of contact adhesive. I’m not too bothered about the noise, I accept it as part of the targa ‘experience’! (Along with the leaks).

I removed my latches to see where the wear is. It looks like the rollers take a bit of it so I’m going to make some new ones  with a (slightly) greater diameter. Worth a try before I commit to the £300+ for two new ones.

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Okay....so maybe the experts can help here...I had the top refurbished with new seals by Southbound around 7 years ago...noise is not bad ( only notice it really when approaching 3 figures)...is this fitted with the p seal and if removed how does the top seal 

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C3D58C74-761D-471C-8B99-86CCEC744244.jpeg

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1 hour ago, ajp said:

I adjusted the latches as low as they can go a while ago. My roof seam sits higher than in your photo. The (new) front seal was replaced after a respray and is sitting quite high. I’m going to remove it and see if I can seat it lower with a thin layer of contact adhesive. I’m not too bothered about the noise, I accept it as part of the targa ‘experience’! (Along with the leaks).

I removed my latches to see where the wear is. It looks like the rollers take a bit of it so I’m going to make some new ones  with a (slightly) greater diameter. Worth a try before I commit to the £300+ for two new ones.

A good part of the problem is that you've probably been sold the wrong seal. There are numerous threads on pelican about this - apparently from about 1995 onward Porsche started to supply the 964 front seal for IB cars under the 911 part number. The seal is too thick and raises the top up too high. Dan Pechtel in the US has commissioned his own run of seals that fit properly. The other option is to remove the seal and remove material from its underside to lower it back down.

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