Where is this oil coming from?

[Phill]

3 minutes ago, proporsche said:

oh yaa i forgot to mention ,i do know how to rebuild the 911 engine;-) you know where to find me;-)

 

Ivan

I do like the look of your home town, it's on my list of places to visit, just not this year 

As mentioned, if you set up a shop in Northern France I think you would be inundated with work!

2 minutes ago, fat fuchs said:

First engine leaked from the nose bearing so he had to split the cases again. 2nd engine leaked from the rocker covers. I agree with Ivan that the professional builders should ideally get these builds right first time. It's a pain to take the car back to the builder to get them corrected.

Your problems/leaks may well be minor Phill so I wouldn't worry until they have been inspected by your builder.

Cheers

FF

I hope so. Need to get it jacked up to have a clearer look and take some pictures.

[Nige]

7 minutes ago, proporsche said:

oh yaa i forgot to mention ,i do know how to rebuild the 911 engine;-) you know where to find me;-)

 

Ivan

You're at the top of my radar when the time comes.  Couple more years saving yet though!

[proporsche]

well? no thank you no more France for me, i have plenty on my table here as we speak;-)right now i am doing 1985 930....

 

 

[proporsche]

this engine was done in Germany -again in some well known shop .when i checked the camshaft timing, crazy it is supposed to have 0,60-80 and i had 0,3 no wonder it had no power ,nada...

So it will be just a partial job, 3 more-full rebuilds to come over the winter....

Nige, no problem when the times come...

[Busybee]

Comes to something that with all our hugely expensive specialists here in the uk, we are asking Ivan to set up shop in northern france to rebuild our motors! How crap are our guys! Ivan, how much do you charge for a full build? 

[proporsche]

Bussybee...well, it takes 60 hours that is what i charge you -70 euro an hour so 4200 euros...You can choose the machine shop where i would take your parts and for a valve job.I have some across the border in Germany for that.Not the one we used with BOB, that was a nightmare.The valve job runs in these days around 1200 euros.

All the parts you can supply yourself or with my reco and help, it will be after you.I do the cleaning, only some parts i would give to the shop to clean.

 

Also ,the final ,what you would like you to have done to the engine is up to you.I do not do racing(i have actually done that in LA and my engine has won in Monterey CA race...)

if you bring only the engine it is easier but i rather have the car so i can test it after rebuild..But driving i will leave after you since it is most likely RHD 911.

I would only drive LHD 911..it is safer;-)

 

sound cool?

Ivan

 

Edited November 3, 2019 by proporsche

[GrahamTompkins]

8 minutes ago, Busybee said:

Comes to something that with all our hugely expensive specialists here in the uk, we are asking Ivan to set up shop in northern france to rebuild our motors! How crap are our guys! Ivan, how much do you charge for a full build? 

Our expensive specialists have been taking the mickey for years, fuelled by people with more money than sense beating a path to their doors and the myth that it can only be done by a well known specialist with a reputation, otherwise it’ll devalue your car.

[Busybee]

3 minutes ago, proporsche said:

Bussybee...well, it takes 60 hours that is what i charge you -70 euro an hour so 4200 euros...You can choose the machine shop where i would take your parts and for a valve job.I have some across the border in Germany for that.Not the one we used with BOB, that was a nightmare.The valve job runs in these days around 1200 euros.

All the parts you can supply yourself or with my reco and help, it will be after you.I do the cleaning, only some parts i would give to the shop to clean.

 

Also ,the final ,what you would like you to have done to the engine is up to you.I do not do racing(i have actually done that in LA and my engine has won in Monterey CA race...)

if you bring only the engine it is easier but i rather have the car so i can test it after rebuild..But driving i will leave after you since it is most likely RHD 911.

I would only drive RHD 911..it is safer;-)

 

sound cool?

Ivan

 

Thanks Ivan. So 4200 euros labour, 1200 euros valves and machining then parts. And that is a standard build to stock?

I can’t remember how much D9 charge here in wales but it’s similar I think. 

My engines are ok at the moment thank god but I’ll bear you in mind if I need work 👍

5 minutes ago, GrahamTompkins said:

Our expensive specialists have been taking the mickey for years, fuelled by people with more money than sense beating a path to their doors and the myth that it can only be done by a well known specialist with a reputation, otherwise it’ll devalue your car.

Yes, think you’re right to an extent. Would you personally think a car is better or more valuable having had an engine rebuilt at Tuthill or Autofarm than a an other builder? Problem is so many “specialists” are crap at what they do, deliver poor service and charge a fortune. It’s become a bit of punt wherever you take a car in the uk. How many requests for help finding a good specialist do you see? I see lots. 

To give an example and I won’t name names, I had one of my cars serviced recently. Took all the consumables in to them as discussed. New plugs, dizzy cap, rotor arm, plugs, fuel and oil filter, oil etc. Wanted a major service with tappets set etc. Was told it didn’t sound tappety so wouldn’t need that, plugs weren’t changed and neither were the fuel filter, dizzy cap and arm.  Did them when I got the car back. It was just kind of shoddy. They were there so for the hour or two, might as well have changed them and given me the baseline I wanted. Almost as if they couldn’t be arsed. I’ve still to find a good uk specialist. 

[Leicestershire]

8 hours ago, proporsche said:

Phill in that case don`t drive it until you have the time,really ...i do understand the problem but this way your engine will not be strong enough...then again there should not be any oil leaks period...i did not read up on your build -you did it yourself or some shop?

Nobody in the UK drives 500 miles in one stint to run in a new engine.

The vast majority of owners will take several weekends to hit their target break in mileage.

[proporsche]

busy.. yup only stock....there are experts on race rebuilds outhere.....

 

Ivan

[Dr Rock]

1 hour ago, Leicestershire said:

Nobody in the UK drives 500 miles in one stint to run in a new engine.

I did.  Went around Birmingham...did the 1000 miles in 4 days.

[proporsche]

i had a feeling it was doable Dr Rock....;-)

[Type911]

1 hour ago, GrahamTompkins said:

Our expensive specialists have been taking the mickey for years, fuelled by people with more money than sense beating a path to their doors and the myth that it can only be done by a well known specialist with a reputation, otherwise it’ll devalue your car.

yup 100% agree 

[Leicestershire]

39 minutes ago, Dr Rock said:

I did.  Went around Birmingham...did the 1000 miles in 4 days.

4 days. 

4 stops.

4 cold starts.

[GrahamTompkins]

3 hours ago, Busybee said:

 

Yes, think you’re right to an extent. Would you personally think a car is better or more valuable having had an engine rebuilt at Tuthill or Autofarm than a an other builder? Problem is so many “specialists” are crap at what they do, deliver poor service and charge a fortune. It’s become a bit of punt wherever you take a car in the uk. How many requests for help finding a good specialist do you see? I see lots. 

 

Personally no I wouldn’t but very many people would, hence the hype. I would certainly expect it to be done properly by those two though, and I know one person whose Turbo rebuild wasn’t.

[RivieraBob]

The 'specialists' have you by the short and curlies due to provenance. I'm presently having a rebuild on my 915 box - again by a 'guy in a shed' who has loads of experience and is somewhat obsessive over getting it right. Now can you imagine if I was looking to sell....first question on phone, who rebuilt your engine and gearbox. Answer, the engine some crazy Czech guy, the gearbox some chap that's borderline autistic. Click! Phone goes dead.

It's not massively cheaper as an option so why? My thinking, having read numerous horror stories, is that they are not under the same commercial pressures, so they haven't got someone breathing down their neck saying button the thing up before they are 100 per cent happy. Or to put it another way, it feels like they are doing the job as if it was their own car and taking their time. How many shops can afford that attitude, or sadly even seem to care once they have a famous stamp to show on the invoice? And by 'taking their time' I mean actually working on the engine, not having it as one of many just sitting there on some sort or conveyor belt gathering dust whilst they do some other more lucrative job.

So the result...I have only paperwork for parts, expensive parts, but not much else. However I'm really happy with the outcome. I've had knowledgable friends drive it with comments like 'are you sure it's just a 3.2' and 'It's been a while since I was in one but I can't remember feeling these pull like that'.

Nb. The one obvious exception to lazy specialists resting on their laurels is Chris at Center of Gravity, who will work until he drops to get the job done right.

Sorry Phill for swerving off topic. I truly hope it's a minor thing, but get them to sort it!

 

[RivieraBob]

Although Ivan does have a a very eccentric way to get the engine onto the stand....

Involving chains (so far so good)....

 

And the teeth of the bucket on a Bobcat!!!.....

 

 

 

[proporsche]

yup Bob that was funny..no more Bobcat i use now a winch;-).... for ballance Pilsner  works well for me as a beer drinker and for the engine to do the clutch work...and transs assembly;-)

 

[GrahamTompkins]

9 hours ago, RivieraBob said:

The 'specialists' have you by the short and curlies due to provenance. I'm presently having a rebuild on my 915 box - again by a 'guy in a shed' who has loads of experience and is somewhat obsessive over getting it right. Now can you imagine if I was looking to sell....first question on phone, who rebuilt your engine and gearbox. Answer, the engine some crazy Czech guy, the gearbox some chap that's borderline autistic. Click! Phone goes dead.

It's not massively cheaper as an option so why? My thinking, having read numerous horror stories, is that they are not under the same commercial pressures, so they haven't got someone breathing down their neck saying button the thing up before they are 100 per cent happy. Or to put it another way, it feels like they are doing the job as if it was their own car and taking their time. How many shops can afford that attitude, or sadly even seem to care once they have a famous stamp to show on the invoice? And by 'taking their time' I mean actually working on the engine, not having it as one of many just sitting there on some sort or conveyor belt gathering dust whilst they do some other more lucrative job.

 

Agree 100% Bob, and quite honestly, this “builder snobbery” has been created and perpetuated by forums such as this. The way some of these so called expert builders treat their customers and the way that the customers accept it astonishes me, prime example We go again. Would never be tolerated in any other trade or business, but in this scenario it is almost regarded as a badge of honour having a protracted and traumatic rebuild and a massive invoice.

i bought my present 911 12 years ago, from a chap who was a retired engineer and a well known Alfa race series driver. He rebuilt my engine himself and all I have in the file are a bunch of parts invoices , and notes, measurements, some oil stained. This was my third 911, so I knew what to expect, but as soon as I drove it on a long test drive,I could tell it was good. 

I have never paid anything like the sort of money these cars go for nowadays, and so I can understand the need for caution, but my advice will always be don’t swallow the hype. Even some PPIers are suckered by the paperwork. Have the car driven by someone independent with experience of these cars, preferably an errant pilsner swigging Czech.

[ras62]

I have often wondered how some of the rebuild costs mentioned on various forums are justified. Its often stated as fact a full rebuild will cost easy 15-20k when the costs in my experience are normally less than 50% of that range. Certainly at my Indy. Advise on running in was drive it hard from the get go!

[proporsche]

ras62..yup that is what i said;-) just mind the red line....otherwise the 911 will be a lazy beast .I  did see a lot of them..so slow like they have the hand-brake stuck on....

 

Ivan

 

Edited November 5, 2019 by proporsche

[Busybee]

Just now, proporsche said:

ras62..yup that is what i said;-) just mind the red line....otherwise the 911 will be a lazy beast .I  did see a lot of them..so slow like they have the hand-brake stuck on....

 

Ivan

 

Ivan

Out of interest, why is that Ivan. Why does a hard run in make the engine faster? 

[proporsche]

it seals better ..i`m not metallurgist but that is what i was taught by a master mechanic from Zuffenhausen..and yes i forgot to ask why, i just do it as he said, and share his wisdom with others.....Friend on mine in LA did a engine 1987, the guy-client took it to San Francisco and back just easy under 3500rpm ... i got to drive it later with 5k on it and VW Bug would have been faster.....so...drive it hard is my middle name ......

oh yes one more thing nothing to do with breaking the engine in..i have found out that a lot mechanic do the camshaft timing on the safe side i like it up there let say the 930 i am doing was timed at 0,3 crazy if you ask me it should be minimum 0,6 but i will set it to 075-0,77....it will kick ass...

 

Ivan

Edited November 5, 2019 by proporsche

[GrahamTompkins]

18 minutes ago, Busybee said:

Out of interest, why is that Ivan. Why does a hard run in make the engine faster? 

Ivan’s right, it’s a question of ring to bore seal. I’m not an engine builder, but my son is .Built two very successful race engines last year and we are building a brand new one for the 2020 season. I have a vested interest, or rather my bank account does, and I have really enjoyed helping him and learning a lot in the process.

this article explains the basics 

http://blog.jepistons.com/how-to-break-in-an-engine

 

[proporsche]

when i was 17-18 i worked in Liaz in Czechoslovakia...factory on engines testing machines where the rpm was like 12000k while testing ...the exhaust was totally red..i did cook my dinner on it;-)..it was an amazing experience in my live...it looked like the machine in this article;-).....i totally forgot about it.....oh yeah the girls up north in Czech were always the most beautiful...