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Beaky

Friday night and I’m Bored to thought I’d stir the old oil pot again

Bored, so want to stir the pot we a poll   

12 members have voted

  1. 1. What’s in your car

    • Vr1 20w-50
      6
    • Fuchs Titan Pro R 20w-50
      1
    • Millers classic Sport 20w-50
      2
    • Another brand fully synthetic 10w-40
      3


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Go figure,

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I heard the hippie car ran patchouli oil. 

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I’ve been waiting for this thread!! I’d always recommend using an oil that closely colour matches your car 😉 

A6C693DA-0F05-4795-B6B0-9B77E52C21C9.jpeg

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Mine’s air cooled so I don’t use any oil


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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What happens if it’s none of the above?  What kind of survey is this, trying to shape the answer......😀

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34 minutes ago, PeterK said:

Mine’s air cooled so I don’t use any oil

😁

I like Castrol Magnatec because it has "clinging molecules that protect from the start". Question is, how long do they cling for? If you don't use your car for a couple of weeks have they got the stamina to hang in there?

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I use this 

Screen-Shot-2014-10-15-at-14.50.07.png

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Posted (edited)

Hope you've got a hot water bottle Nige, that naughty step is chilly at this time of year 😉

Edited by Phill

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9 hours ago, Chris T said:

I’ve been waiting for this thread!! I’d always recommend using an oil that closely colour matches your car 😉 

A6C693DA-0F05-4795-B6B0-9B77E52C21C9.jpeg

👍

 

27 minutes ago, Busybee said:

0E283A00-6BB9-4F55-9DF2-CBBA7FF4AAB4.jpeg

Virgin olive oil is better

 

22 minutes ago, Ian Comerford said:

What happens if it’s none of the above?  What kind of survey is this, trying to shape the answer......😀

Exactly, or did I forget the anything else option :ninja:

10 minutes ago, Nige said:

I use this 

Screen-Shot-2014-10-15-at-14.50.07.png

My Monkey ran away.............................................

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Part 2 - Yes I was really bored that Friday!

What I also did was wrote (see below) to several respected engine builders and also oil companies to see what they said

To Engine Builders

"I currently own a slightly modified 1986 911 3.2 (now 3.4) Carrera and run VR1 20w-50 oil. if I wanted to use a fully synthetic oil something like Fuchs Titan pro R 20w50 or similar as an example what would you recommend"

Two said stay with VR1 as its what the use, two said they use Millers CFS 10-50 and would highly recommend it, one said you can change but didn't say to what.

To Oil Companies

"I run a 1986 911 modified Carrera 3.2 (now 3.4) and currently use Vr1 20w-50 (mineral) but looking to change to a fully synthetic oil. I also believe that these old engines require zddp level between 1200-1400. I know your classic range would cover this but would something like CFS 10w50 (also have the same level of wear protection - Used equivalent oils for each company.

Miller's said this: 

None of our engine oils have this high an amount of ZDDP. The classic oils are around 1000ppm and the CFS range is roughly the same. The CFS will have a greater level of wear protection than the Valvoline product due to it’s nanotechnology.

Fuchs said:

Pro R 15W-50 contains circa 1150 ppm zinc: Pro R 20W-50 contains circa 1050 ppm zinc

Required amount really depends on the zinc compound of which there are many, we experience no problems with Pro R grades in Porsche applications.

Nothing back from Valvoline or Motul

What have we learnt - finding the old standard of 1200+ ppm ZDDP (historically deemed best anti wear for flat tappet cars) for your car is limited, newer zinc or zinc mix elements to meet emissions compliance requirement means most zddp levels are around the 1000ppm mark.

Our cars are ranked a API SF which is now obsolete and newer ranges (SJ to SN plus) although supposedly backward compliant don't have the same level of zddp - a 0w-30 typically around 800ppm 

http://www.pqiamerica.com/apiserviceclass.htm 

You lot probably know all this but it was a good learning curve for me. 

I used CFS 10-40 before the rebuild, so may try CFS 10w50 or try the Fuchs Pro R

 

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I think peeps need to get over the ZDDP levels - yes in SL or older oil approvals, ZDDP was higher, but newer SM/SN rated oils use other antiwear products like Molybendum.

See Motul 300v 15/50 for example - 1050 or ZDDP, but much higher Moly levels than most oils hence why its used my motorsport teams.  Detergent levels are sufficient for 5k oil changes or so.

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20w 50 sounds a bit thick for our weather anyway Chris. I put Fuchs Titan Pro 10w 40 in Daisy (recommended by Opie) and you can feel the slipperiness of the stuff. Its weird. Far more slippery than say a castrol edge between the fingers. No idea why. 

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you lot have way too much spare time on your hands :D 

When my engine was rebuilt by Richard Chamberlain (20+yrs Porsche racing experience)  he used and recommended 10w 60 so that's what ive stuck with. He said they use it in all their race engines and lairy engine builds. if its good enough for him, its good enough for me!

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7 hours ago, SP72 said:

I think peeps need to get over the ZDDP levels - yes in SL or older oil approvals, ZDDP was higher, but newer SM/SN rated oils use other antiwear products like Molybendum.

See Motul 300v 15/50 for example - 1050 or ZDDP, but much higher Moly levels than most oils hence why its used my motorsport teams.  Detergent levels are sufficient for 5k oil changes or so.

For those that can't sleep..................

https://phys.org/news/2015-03-long-standing-mysteries-anti-wear-motor-oil.html

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8 hours ago, SP72 said:

but newer SM/SN rated oils use other antiwear products like Molybendum.

Yes, but.

All the new standards concentrate on friction and film retention under rotation, meshing and sliding. There is no longer a need for manufactures to be concerned with impact, which you only get in a flat tappet engine.

Synthetic oil and their additives perform very well in all aspects needed for a modern engine design, not so sure they do so well in the case of impact. Older non synthetic oils with more traditional additives have a proven track record regarding impact performance. 

From the chemistry involved it is also highly likely that, additives aside, a non synthetic base will have better impact performance than a synthetic base. 

So what we use in our older engines has to be a compromise based on what is available today.

:twocents:

Mark

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Porsche did switch to synthetics for the 964 which is pretty much exactly the same as earlier models ? With tappets  so they must have been  more suited synths in those days ? 

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24 minutes ago, SilverWT said:

Yes, but.

All the new standards concentrate on friction and film retention under rotation, meshing and sliding. There is no longer a need for manufactures to be concerned with impact, which you only get in a flat tappet engine.

Synthetic oil and their additives perform very well in all aspects needed for a modern engine design, not so sure they do so well in the case of impact. Older non synthetic oils with more traditional additives have a proven track record regarding impact performance. 

From the chemistry involved it is also highly likely that, additives aside, a non synthetic base will have better impact performance than a synthetic base. 

So what we use in our older engines has to be a compromise based on what is available today.

:twocents:

Mark

Agree to an extent, however I chose Rock Oil Carbon for that reason - a new synthetic but still tested using the industry standard flat tappet wear test (figures shown for a 5w30 which I would not use)

https://www.rockoil.co.uk/cm/products/lubricants/motorsport-fast-road

Plus it’s 2 thirds of the price of 300v.

I may try the street version of the Motul 15w50 synth - some useful feedback here from a motul rep:

https://rennlist.com/forums/928-forum/1088564-introduction-motul.html

 

 

 

 

@Beaky are you worried about the oil you’re running or genuinely bored?
Assuming VR1 is what Jaz use? 

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26 minutes ago, SP72 said:

are you worried about the oil you’re running or genuinely bored?
Assuming VR1 is what Jaz use? 

I was initially bored and thought as I have spend so much time and money on the car is there a better oil to use , and yes VR1 is what Jaz and BS Motorsport use. 

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9 minutes ago, Roy M said:

Is that 10w60 vr1?

VR1 20w-50, its specs are very good, just looking to see if there is a better or at least equivalent synthetic 

Edited by Beaky

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24 minutes ago, Beaky said:

VR1 20w-50, its specs are very good, just looking to see if there is a better or at least equivalent synthetic 

Thanks

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Are you starting a tyre thread tonight Chris? :yahoo:

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