njpcarrera32 Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 6 minutes ago, Richard Bernau said: 2 weeks ago - this will be totally fine. 1 week ago - still fine. Just wash your hands and send your kids to school. Today - everyone!!! We desperately need ventilators! Now! Nobody could have seen this coming. Quickly make some of those *checks notes* ventilators. Hat tip Matt Hancock. Maybe, just maybe this will be the crisis that makes the government realise the importance of having a strong, productive manufacturing and agricultural sectors, and true investment in science and technology. We are too dependent upon the kindness of strangers fro so many things that keep the country going from food to medicines, to defence, to IT tech. I note that even when a vaccine is found that we don't have the capability to produce it, we will be dependent on factories in France, Belgium, and others. Who are they or their governments going to prioritise? Similarly one research company is getting all of it's funding from the Chinese government, they're still waiting to hear from the UK government on £3m of funding... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R2D2 Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 Or maybe the government is doing the right thing? You never know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryH Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 'It's only like flu', no need to do anything' they said... How's that working out for you ? 4 hours ago, R2D2 said: Or maybe the government is doing the right thing? You never know! Today's announcement answers your question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R2D2 Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 Not really Mr G, too early to tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryH Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 (edited) On 3/15/2020 at 6:14 PM, Jonny Hart said: I’m no Tory ( I loath most politicians) but this is a ridiculous statement. How would any health system predict that we specifically needed loads of ventilators? Do you think that if this virus resulted in people losing a leg, we would have enough crutches and replacement limbs to go round? This isn’t a time for political point scoring. This chart shows the total number of critical care beds per 100,000 inhabitants in selected countries. Can you see where Italy is in relation to the UK ? On 3/15/2020 at 6:14 PM, Jonny Hart said: Edited March 16, 2020 by GaryH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oliverjamesthomas Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 Gary, a quick question if I may. Have you ever worked for the NHS, an organisation contracting or affiliated to it, or possibly an organisation regulated or inspected by it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sopor Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 41 minutes ago, GaryH said: I posted a link to the similar info earlier but the above graph includes the age of the data. It's 8 years old for EU countries - wonder what it is today? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcarrera Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 46 minutes ago, GaryH said: This chart shows the total number of critical care beds per 100,000 inhabitants in selected countries. Can you see where Italy is in relation to the UK ? What broader point are you trying to make Gary other than repeating the fact that you "hate the Tories" ? The most recent WHO data reports that Italy spends approximately £500 pa per head less on healthcare than the UK AND a lower total annual expenditre figure in terms of % of national GDP (approx 8.9 v 9.8) ............................................. ????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny Hart Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 7 hours ago, njpcarrera32 said: Maybe, just maybe this will be the crisis that makes the government realise the importance of having a strong, productive manufacturing and agricultural sectors, and true investment in science and technology. We are too dependent upon the kindness of strangers fro so many things that keep the country going from food to medicines, to defence, to IT tech. I note that even when a vaccine is found that we don't have the capability to produce it, we will be dependent on factories in France, Belgium, and others. Who are they or their governments going to prioritise? Similarly one research company is getting all of it's funding from the Chinese government, they're still waiting to hear from the UK government on £3m of funding... I’ve always felt this way. For me. the whole EU thing served to highlight the U.K. being on a flimsy umbilical chord to Europe, dependent on it for even the most basic supplies. This is not a sustainable or sensible situation to be in. As for open borders, it’s a nice idea but when it goes pear shaped ( like now ), up goes the drawbridge and pretty much every country has to fend for itself. I see no help from the EU regarding Italy’s crisis either. https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/03/14/coronavirus-eu-abandoning-italy-china-aid/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beaky Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 Anyone with an ounce of sense knows you can make any chart give you whatever result you want depending on what criteria you use, how they are measured and how they weighted. As my maths teacher said, there are liars, bloody liars and statisticians! I’m quite saddened by the tone and nature of this thread , but in reality I shouldn’t be, it’s very indicative of the current environment in which we live.......instance fame and fake news are king. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
World Citizen Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 Anyone going into work tomorrow or is just me 🙄 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oliverjamesthomas Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 I’ll be in, Shipshape and Bristol fashion. VPN’s and think tanks won’t get this refurbishment done 😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beaky Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 38 minutes ago, World Citizen said: Anyone going into work tomorrow or is just me 🙄 Yup, but by next week will mostly close down head office, with the exception of a daily rota of one Director being on site between 10 to 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lund Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-nhs-doctor-warns-we-are-already-at-breaking-point-11958542 This, unfortunately, is what is happening at the moment.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sopor Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 8 hours ago, Jonny Hart said: I’ve always felt this way. For me. the whole EU thing served to highlight the U.K. being on a flimsy umbilical chord to Europe, dependent on it for even the most basic supplies. This is not a sustainable or sensible situation to be in. As for open borders, it’s a nice idea but when it goes pear shaped ( like now ), up goes the drawbridge and pretty much every country has to fend for itself. I see no help from the EU regarding Italy’s crisis either. https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/03/14/coronavirus-eu-abandoning-italy-china-aid/ But this isn't the EU's fault - it's Britain's own choice through the decisions of successive governments. The article was an interesting read but I think there's an area the author conveniently ignored in order to make its point. While Sweden was having forest fires the aiding countries could assess their own risk of forest fires as low and so loan their own resources out. The coronavirus is rather different - pretty much every country in the world knew it was the proverbial "when, not if" for them. In those circumstances it's rather difficult to lend out your own resources knowing what's almost certainly around the corner. Not that I'm a fan of BoJo (or Corbyn, or any of them, for that matter) but can you imagine the uproar had he said 2 weeks ago that we were lending out an already limited supply of medical equipment to another country? And the resources being lent out are rather more embedded than aircraft. China, for all its bad press as an authoritarian regime etc etc, seems amazingly able to change course when required to build hospitals (and presumably direct factories to make respirators and other medical supplies needed by the west) while countries like the UK are still debating about who might be commissioned to design the hospital. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 Money talks from the british government. Not closing businesses allowing them not to pay out indemnities and big insurance groups not to cover small struggling businesses. Classic tories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryH Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 6 hours ago, World Citizen said: Anyone going into work tomorrow or is just me 🙄 All departments divided into two teams. One team in one week, other team working from home that week. Office deep-cleaned every weekend then teams swap over. Until further notice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryH Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 (edited) 8 hours ago, Beaky said: Anyone with an ounce of sense knows you can make any chart give you whatever result you want depending on what criteria you use, how they are measured and how they weighted. Denying uncomfortable truths because they don't align with your world-view won't help. (That's how we ended up with Brexit). Graph data is weighted. 11 hours ago, sopor said: I posted a link to the similar info earlier but the above graph includes the age of the data. It's 8 years old for EU countries - wonder what it is today? After ten years of current government policies, oh I don't know ? 🙄 Edited March 17, 2020 by GaryH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryH Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 11 hours ago, oliverjamesthomas said: Gary, a quick question if I may. Have you ever worked for the NHS, an organisation contracting or affiliated to it, or possibly an organisation regulated or inspected by it? No, but I can read and count OJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy M Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 '... there are very few numbers which are not manipulated for political gain. Claiming the NHS needs £20 billion extra funding which it did not get due to Tory austerity conveniently forgets the £23 billion (2% of budget) which the Labour PFI initiative costs it every year' Lies, damned lies and statistics! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
World Citizen Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 Question for Gary and Fred, why do you choose to live in this country if you don't like how the government runs it so much ? There are plenty of other countries to live in, life is too short to be so bitter about your slice of the pie, I feel sad for both of you ☹️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Bernau Posted March 17, 2020 Author Share Posted March 17, 2020 Damning all data as lies is hardly helpful. Data is what we base our analysis and planning on. By all means critically assess it. What is the source and is that reputable? Who is the author and what qualifications do they have? Is it likely they have bias or agenda? We have a good health system but very little spare capacity - that is incontrovertible. Probably no better than Italy and generally ranked lower on international rankings. When the govt says we have the worlds best health system, that is just propaganda. In terms of what important for cv19 - eg., ventilators - we are nowhere near the best. Why is anyone arguing otherwise when you can google the information in seconds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Bernau Posted March 17, 2020 Author Share Posted March 17, 2020 14 minutes ago, World Citizen said: Question for Gary and Fred, why do you choose to live in this country if you don't like how the government runs it so much ? There are plenty of other countries to live in, life is too short to be so bitter about your slice of the pie, I feel sad for both of you ☹️ You can be critical of govt and still choose to live here. Not mutually exclusive. Why are you not critical? I know you apply critical thought to your job, so why not govt policy (semi serious question). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lesworth Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 2 hours ago, GaryH said: All departments divided into two teams. One team in one week, other team working from home that week. Office deep-cleaned every weekend then teams swap over. Until further notice. This was us until 10pm last night. Now its everyone that can feasibly do it, work from home and avoid mass transit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny Hart Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 A few positive outcomes: Pollution is down by a massive amount. A clear and obvious way to reduce emissions would be to reduce factory operating hours. You can get a seat on a train. Someone on the news described this as ‘eerie’. Wtf? Employers will have to accommodate for home working. Hopefully these measures can last and become normalised for a lot of occupations. Respecting personal space. Can this become the norm please? Coughs and sneezes, revolting perfume and scoffing stinky Greggs on a train. Ugh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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