Another oil thread - Valvoline VR1

[PorscheApostle]

On 25/05/2020 at 21:03, Busybee said:

Weird right. Nothing else but the gauge gives any indication of a reduced pressure. What could it be? Guess the pressure sender (which looks as old as the ark to be fair) could be a good place to start. Is there a way of testing pressure independently? Nothing else has changed. Fresh filter, oil. Valves sound lovely now. No tappety tappety. Pulls better than ever. 

You can test oil pressure off the main gallery at the rear of the engine provided you have an adapter and pressure gauge setup. Think it's unlikely to be an oil pressure issue more likely your sender. Moving to a heavier oil will give you spikes in oil pressure from cold but will have little tangible difference when it's hot. It's important to ensure your oil pressure control and relief valves are operating correctly IE seating and moving within their recesses . High oil pressure from cold can blow oil coolers and in some cases cause piston splash valve failure which can result in low oil pressure at idle.  

I use VR1 in my 64s and would recommend it but I change it regularly every 3k

 

DBS

 

 

 

[Busybee]

10 hours ago, PorscheApostle said:

You can test oil pressure off the main gallery at the rear of the engine provided you have an adapter and pressure gauge setup. Think it's unlikely to be an oil pressure issue more likely your sender. Moving to a heavier oil will give you spikes in oil pressure from cold but will have little tangible difference when it's hot. It's important to ensure your oil pressure control and relief valves are operating correctly IE seating and moving within their recesses . High oil pressure from cold can blow oil coolers and in some cases cause piston splash valve failure which can result in low oil pressure at idle.  

I use VR1 in my 64s and would recommend it but I change it regularly every 3k

DBS

Thanks DBS. I think it's the sender too and have one on order with Matt. 

Out of interest, where do I plug in to test the oil pressure directly and what adapter/gauge do I need? One of those fuel pressure tester off Ebay? 

[PorscheApostle]

If you remove your low oil pressure switch next to the crank breather get an adapter to fit (can't remember the size think they're M10 x1.25 thread) . Then a suitable pressure gauge like in a cis fuel test kit will do the job. 

D

[Busybee]

Thanks Dave 👍 If the sender doesn’t fix it, I’ll get on it 

[Busybee]

Swapped out the old sender this evening. Normal service has been resumed. Idling around the 2 mark and races for the 5 with a prod of throttle. I wouldn't be surprised if that was the original sender. Was mega tight on the union block. 

[strosek34]

Result,   👍

[8bucksagallon]

BradPenn for me currently (specialist that fitted motor loves it...) Will be going to my regular VR1 Racing (synthetic) at next oil change. No experience with the S/C 3.8 Yet but many 1000’s of miles in the 289/427 which solved much of my anxiety whilst touring as they don’t breakdown until much higher temps. Good friend races them and  Wouldn’t use anything else And he’s been at it for 40 yrs+ so has used them all. (2c and all that)

Edited August 4, 2020 by 8bucksagallon

[declang]

Yes I know.. The Bumpermiester will slap on an instant ban for mentioning oil, and maybe a permanent ban for resurrecting an oil thread ... but .....  needs must, etc etc

Some years back, Opie recommended a "Full synthetic ester" Fuchs (Titan) Race Pro R 15W50 for my 2.7 MFI (911/83 spec), so I used that and still have 6L left for some strange reason. ( I think I pilfered some for another car !)

I found 20W50 Valvoline VR1 locally (surprisingly in Ireland !) and I can have 10L of that for the price of the missing 4L or 5L of the Fuchs stuff.

From all the reading I've done, I'm thinking I should try the good old mineral oil. 

I'd appreciate advice.  Is the VR1 a good choice for my 2.7 MFI motor ?

Thanks

Edit: I should add .... normal "fast" Irish road  use ... under 100kph ossifer. 

 

Edited January 6, 2021 by declang
Added how its used

[Busybee]

Fuchs Titan is a great oil. I use it in Daisy and that car likes to rev - a lot. Feel the slipperiness of it off the dipstick and you’ll see a marked difference.

Use VR1 in the less highly strung engines. Again, seems fine. 

Think it’s shades of performance. If it usually costs twice as much, it’s likely cause it’s better gear. 

[hot66]

VR1 is perfect for the 2.7 mfi motor .   There is a reason some of the UK's top aircooled performance engien buliders use it on all their motors from normal to wild.   CAnt see why busybee would say not to use it in highly strung / performacnce build motors

[declang]

5 hours ago, hot66 said:

VR1 is perfect for the 2.7 mfi motor 

Thanks 👍

[Busybee]

Sorry, think you’ve misunderstood. I use both. Just prefer the Fuchs Titan for my high revving tracked motor.  

[Phill]

48 minutes ago, Busybee said:

Sorry, think you’ve misunderstood. I use both. Just prefer the Fuchs Titan for my high revving tractor.  

Fixed that for you 😉

[Busybee]

8 minutes ago, Phill said:

Fixed that for you 😉

😱

[Ian Comerford]

This thread is worth a read regarding the need for high zinc and phosphorus content in oil for our engines. 
 

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/1084957-porsche-classic-oil.html

And means I may move to VR1 after using Magnatec for years. The pitting found on my cams could be attributable to the lack of sufficient levels of these ingredients. 

[craigt]

I was trying to find out Zddp levels in various oils as it's time for a change.

I couldn't find the info I wanted and asked someone at Opie Oils where I was going to purchase from. He said manufacturers don't publish the levels as its pretty irrelevant. As long as you buy the correct grade of oil for your car it will contain the correct amount of ZDDP. 

I've no idea if that's correct. I've no reason to doubt what he says and he wasn't trying to sell me something more expensive.

He did say that 10W60 wasn't suitable for an IB though even although Porsche classic oil is 10W60!!

I spent days going round in circles confusing myself. I've been using 15W40 but have changed to 15W50 as I fancied a change and liked the packaging🤣🤣

I think I'll do what I've always done in the past, buy the correct grade at a reasonable price and change it more often than I should.

Now, where my beer🍺

 

[Beaky]

2 hours ago, craigt said:

I was trying to find out Zddp levels in various oils as it's time for a change.

I couldn't find the info I wanted and asked someone at Opie Oils where I was going to purchase from. He said manufacturers don't publish the levels as its pretty irrelevant. As long as you buy the correct grade of oil for your car it will contain the correct amount of ZDDP. 

I've no idea if that's correct. I've no reason to doubt what he says and he wasn't trying to sell me something more expensive.

He did say that 10W60 wasn't suitable for an IB though even although Porsche classic oil is 10W60!!

I spent days going round in circles confusing myself. I've been using 15W40 but have changed to 15W50 as I fancied a change and liked the packaging🤣🤣

I think I'll do what I've always done in the past, buy the correct grade at a reasonable price and change it more often than I should.

Now, where my beer🍺

 

Have a look at my “it’s Friday night..........” oil thread, not scientific research but a rough guide to the Oil specs that I could find 

[ALEX P]

12 hours ago, Ian Comerford said:

This thread is worth a read regarding the need for high zinc and phosphorus content in oil for our engines. 
 

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/1084957-porsche-classic-oil.html

And means I may move to VR1 after using Magnatec for years. The pitting found on my cams could be attributable to the lack of sufficient levels of these ingredients. 

This is me too Ian. I used to use Magnatec but without falling into the trap of reading all of these tedious oil threads in too much detail I decided that the argument for switching to VR1 was reasonable enough so just did it.

TBH,I have found dick all difference but I do believe that provided you regularly change it then you can't go too far wrong whatever camp you sit in.

Life is too short. Make sure there is oil in the car and then use the thing. I'm good at the first part!!

[RivieraBob]

4 hours ago, craigt said:

........asked someone at Opie Oils ....... He said ..........As long as you buy the correct grade of oil for your car it will contain the correct amount of ZDDP. 

 

 

Well that part of Opie's advice is definitely b*ll*cks. Trying to be fair to Opie maybe he was saying that the correct grade of oil is the most important factor?

[craigt]

11 hours ago, RivieraBob said:

Well that part of Opie's advice is definitely b*ll*cks. Trying to be fair to Opie maybe he was saying that the correct grade of oil is the most important factor?

I specifically asked how to find info on ZDDP and he said manufacturers don't publish it because oil contains enough to suit the grade supplied. 

So I assumed he meant if I bought a 0W20 oil for an IB it would contain little ZDDP as its totally unsuitable for the vehicle because the grade is wrong.  But, if I buy a 15W40, 15W50 etc there will be sufficient ZDDP in any of those oils because they are the correct grade for that engine type. 

This theory is supported in Beakys table of ZDDP levels in another thread. 

So the Motul 15W50 I bought has 1150ppm ZDDP

*Edit - Just to be clear, I'm not criticising the guy from Opie Oils. He was really knowledgeable and helpful. 

He wasn't saying ZDDP was not important, he was saying if you buy the correct grade of oil it Will contain enough so you don't need to concern yourself with it*

Edited February 14, 2021 by craigt
Clarity

[RivieraBob]

Craig, I still find that Opie comment odd - implying by ordering the correct grade you automatically get the correct level of ZDDP for impact bumpers. I was told to aim for 1000 ppm plus (1000 -1400) and Castrol, Halfords (rebranded Comma) 20w50 for instance had levels at 700/800. Hence I chose VR1. Think I best withdraw at this point rather than becoming part of what we all detest. 

Bob

[oilman]

On 14/02/2021 at 09:44, craigt said:

I specifically asked how to find info on ZDDP and he said manufacturers don't publish it because oil contains enough to suit the grade supplied. 

So I assumed he meant if I bought a 0W20 oil for an IB it would contain little ZDDP as its totally unsuitable for the vehicle because the grade is wrong.  But, if I buy a 15W40, 15W50 etc there will be sufficient ZDDP in any of those oils because they are the correct grade for that engine type. 

This theory is supported in Beakys table of ZDDP levels in another thread. 

So the Motul 15W50 I bought has 1150ppm ZDDP

*Edit - Just to be clear, I'm not criticising the guy from Opie Oils. He was really knowledgeable and helpful. 

He wasn't saying ZDDP was not important, he was saying if you buy the correct grade of oil it Will contain enough so you don't need to concern yourself with it*

Was that Tim you spoke to?

If so, he is right but could have explained it better. Levels of ZDDP are important in these engines and do need to be taken into consideration when choosing oils. Where he is correct is the types of oils most would choose to run in an older aircooled Porsche are most likely to have more than enough ZDDP. As oils have advanced along side the development of engines, levels of ZDDP have been vastly reduced, but you are unlikely by default to use one of these oils such as 5w-40, 5w-30, 0w-30 etc. As the oils get thinner the ZDDP levels drop. This is because new cars do not require 15w-40's, 15w-50's and 20w-50's so they will be aimed at older veichles with the additive pack to suit.

Most oil companies do not publish ZDDP levels unless they are using it as a marketing tool. But a good rule of thumb is classic branded oils and race oils will always have a good dose of ZDDP. It is also important to bear in mind that too much ZDDP is not a good thing, anything from  around 800ppm to 1300ppm is plenty. Any more than that it it does not acheive anything.

10w-60 is one to be careful of as these are still being recommended for some modern vehicles, and are up to date as the API SN spec which will not have the levels of ZDDP you want.

The Valvoline VR1 20w-50 is a very good oil indeed, very shear stable for a mineral oil and has a good slug of zddp so all is good with that. 20w will take a while to warm up so for those that want to step on the loud pedal a bit sooner, 15w-50 is worth looking at.

Hello to the forum by the way! 👋

Cheers,

Guy

Edited February 22, 2021 by oilman

[16vjay]

I imagine the Mobil 1 Motorsport 10W60 will have good levels of ZDDP? (I think this is what comes in the Porsche cans given their close links to Porsche).

[Phill]

@oilman what is your oil background? Do you work for Valvoline. No critisism, just interested after your helpful post above.

[oilman]

It was around 1300ppm a few years ago so I would assume it is there or there abouts still.

Although the Mobil 1 Motosport branding is no more it is just Mobil 1 10w-60 advanced synthetic these days.

Cheers,

Guy

Just now, Phill said:

@oilman what is your oil background? Do you work for Valvoline. No critisism, just interested after your helpful post above.

Hi Phil,

I probably should have introduced myself!

I have been working with, and recommending lubricants at Opie Oils for the last 17 years 👍 I started the online side of things with my brother who is the MD.

Cheers,

Guy