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McLooper

Brake cooling ducts for 3.2 Carrera

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Hi All,

Has anyone deleted the fog lights on a 3.2 Carrera with the standard valance and installed 'air ducts' for either oil or brake cooling?

 

I'm having trouble finding ducts that are suitable, so if anyone has managed to source ducts that are the right size................I'd really appreciate it if you could let me know either the manufacturer and / or the supplier.

 

Preferably an offset intake with a 2.5" outlet..........but after spending hours looking............anything close would do!  The fog light ope is 7.25" x 4".

 

If I have managed to attach photo.......................then that's what I'm trying to achieve!!

 

Many Thanks

Keep Her Lit 🚙💨 1501772012_Screenshot2020-05-15at20_35_10.thumb.png.6b5d55847193195fcfebad3230d2e205.png

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I wonder if you could get these to work?

396_3.jpg

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Thanks guys, I really appreciate the replies.

I"ve studied the FloJo link and his ducts are smaller than the fog light ope in the valance.  He started with a valance with no holes and cut the ope to suit the duct.......which is maybe where I should have started!! I had seen the photo of the red valance (attached above) and assumed that it would be easy to get ducts the correct size.........wrong!!  Some boy that FloJo!

I"d be very interested in finding the dimensions of the Type 911 ducts......are they on the website?

I had it in my head, that I could 'make good' any difference in size using fibreglass............that was until I realised that fibreglass does not really bond to plastic!!

Anyway, I'm stuck with the used Carrera valance that's been bought for the project.............so that the front rubber lip spoiler can be mounted, in tandem with the new C3 Whale Tail.  I wanted to keep the existing valance (with no foglight opes and no holes for mounting the rubber) in original condition, in the event that I wanted to revert back to the non-spoiler look....... of flat lid and plain valance.

 

Thanks Again

Keep Her Lit 🚙💨 

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Will measure them on Monday 

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Just popped into shop

 

230mm x 85mm

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Easiest way might be to measure the holes at the back of the fog light buckets in your valance and either find any tube shape (I’m thinking plastic pipe reinforcing inserts in shape) that’ll fit in from the front with a stop or get something 3D printed. Maybe one of the printing dudes on here could help you out.

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Thanks for all the suggestions and Type 911 for going to the bother of measuring the ducts .........late on a Saturday evening!!

 

I’ve left all my notes and templates in the office and will check if the dimensions will work first thing in the morning.

 

One or my searches linked to Richard in Club Autosports and he has sent dimensions for a glassfibre ‘yellow bird’ duct ...........and I’ve mocked up a template to offer up to the valance in the morning. So I’ll know more then and report back. 
 

Many thanks again

Keep Her Lit 🚙💨 

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On 16/05/2020 at 00:09, McLooper said:

Hi All,

Has anyone deleted the fog lights on a 3.2 Carrera with the standard valance and installed 'air ducts' for either oil or brake cooling?

Yes, I did for brake cooling. You can find a write up on this PP thread. See post 26 and later.

/Peter

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I have the ducted backing plates in Daisy. Different valance. I remember @Richard Bernau saying he ran the full brake cooling ducted kit. What pipe work and placement did you run Richard? Was it sufficiently effective or overkill? I’ve not cooked those brakes to date btw. 

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Thanks Peter, I had seen your PP write up before..............and that was part of the inspiration for this project! Am I correct in saying that you made the ducts yourself?

Thanks Busybee............that's some good looking car you've got!!

Because I want to retain the standard valance and look of the car (as per photo attached at start of post), I want to minimise the visual impact of the ducts..................while still achieving improved cooling to the front brakes.  Therefore, I thought that an 'offset' tapered duct painted the same colour as the valance would be an easy thing to source!!  The foglight ope is not exactly rectangular and it is slightly curved on the lower outside corner.

 

None of the plastic ducts available will fit without some sort of alterations...............which would be fine..........except for the fact that fibreglass doesn't bond to plastic (recent discovery for me)!!  So I've decided to get the 'yellow bird' fibreglass ducts from Club Autosports and to make good the edges.............I'll update with photos as I go .............and hopefully........if it doesn't look too bad...........I'll include a photo of the installed painted ducts.  

 

I made several cardboard templates of all of the different ducts (both flange and internal dimensions) and after offering them all up to the foglight ope...............I've decided on the one in the attached photo.

 

Many thanks again for all the help.

Keep Her Lit 🚙💨 

Club Auto sport Brake Duct.jpg

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Fibreglass will bond to plastic if you use a two part epoxy glue, like Araldite, or super glue.

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9 hours ago, McLooper said:

Thanks Peter, I had seen your PP write up before..............and that was part of the inspiration for this project! Am I correct in saying that you made the ducts yourself?

Yes, I made the molds from wood and the intakes are vacuum infused vinylester and carbon fiber.

9 hours ago, McLooper said:

None of the plastic ducts available will fit without some sort of alterations...............which would be fine..........except for the fact that fibreglass doesn't bond to plastic (recent discovery for me)!! 

That depends on the plastic. Usually polyester is used as matrix in glass fiber laminates. Both polyester and epoxy glues can be used to bond to polyester based laminates.

Epoxy is also common as matrix material. Polyester does not bond particularly well to epoxy.

Sometimes polyurethane is used to get a tough laminate. Polyurethane can be tricky to glue, and may require a polyurethane based glue.

Many mass produced glass fiber parts are manufactured using thermoplastics like polyamide. Thermoplastics are difficult to get good glues for. For low loads hot melt glue can be used. Thermoplastics can be welded using the right equipment. Cyanoacrylate, or super glue, can be used, but requires very even surfaces and very thin bond lines. For higher loads and thicker bonds a methacrylate glue, such as Araldite 2021, can be used.

The secret to getting a good bond, irrespective of matrix material, is serious surface preparation of the pieces that are to be bonded. Clean, sand and clean the surfaces. The manufacturer of the glue usually have good instructions. Be careful with solvents because they can contaminate the surfaces and reduce the bond strength.

/Peter

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11 hours ago, Busybee said:

I have the ducted backing plates in Daisy. Different valance. I remember @Richard Bernau saying he ran the full brake cooling ducted kit. What pipe work and placement did you run Richard? Was it sufficiently effective or overkill? I’ve not cooked those brakes to date btw. 

Ducting was essential when the car had small std brakes and more weight for track work - particularly somewhere hard on brakes like Bedford or any former airfield track with frequent heavy braking zones.  I would say not really needed for Daisy now unless you want to do a lot of track work in which case lower temps are always good.  I took the ducting off at some point as it simply wasn't needed.  Generally, the 993 air deflector plates will be just fine for 99% of people but you need to ditch the backing plates for them to work more effectively (they are unnecessary anyway and just act as brake heaters).

The problem with ducting is that you have nowhere to put the ducting even once you have the vents in the valence.  There just isn't space once on full lock, so you need to squish the hose that then limits air flow etc.  It can be done, its just not as easy as people initially think.  I haven't looked at the Pelican thread, so sorry if repeating known stuff.

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Edit - one more thought, just having the foglight holes and air rushing into the general area of the wheel well even without ducting will have some beneficial effect - as is the case with Daisy.  That plus the deflector plates will help, then you just use Castrol SRF and high temp race pads and accept you will have high temp spikes at times, but you have dealt with it via pads and fluid.

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6 minutes ago, Richard Bernau said:

The problem with ducting is that you have nowhere to put the ducting even once you have the vents in the valence.  There just isn't space once on full lock, so you need to squish the hose that then limits air flow etc.  It can be done, its just not as easy as people initially think.  I haven't looked at the Pelican thread, so sorry if repeating known stuff.

That issue was covered in the PP thread. As of now I've used my setup for about 13 years and 40 000 km without any problems with pinching.

/Peter

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There is a scoop that replaces the corner rubber isn't there. What about that instead?

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1 hour ago, Phill said:

There is a scoop that replaces the corner rubber isn't there. What about that instead?

that's for the oil cooler Phil

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Just now, longman said:

that's for the oil cooler Phil

Could be modified to suit brake cooling?

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36 minutes ago, Phill said:

Could be modified to suit brake cooling?

Only if Jonny moves the cooler to the rear arch 👻

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2 hours ago, Richard Bernau said:

Ducting was essential when the car had small std brakes and more weight for track work - particularly somewhere hard on brakes like Bedford or any former airfield track with frequent heavy braking zones.  I would say not really needed for Daisy now unless you want to do a lot of track work in which case lower temps are always good.  I took the ducting off at some point as it simply wasn't needed.  Generally, the 993 air deflector plates will be just fine for 99% of people but you need to ditch the backing plates for them to work more effectively (they are unnecessary anyway and just act as brake heaters).

The problem with ducting is that you have nowhere to put the ducting even once you have the vents in the valence.  There just isn't space once on full lock, so you need to squish the hose that then limits air flow etc.  It can be done, its just not as easy as people initially think.  I haven't looked at the Pelican thread, so sorry if repeating known stuff.

Thanks Richard. Guessed as much. That rush of cool air through those big valance openings should be plenty. Good tip to remove those backing plates. Now I have everything off, should be an easy do. Plus I have drilled and vented front discs coming. Extra cool ;) 

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Backing plates on your car were removed many, many years ago - you don't have to do anything there.  Just check the 993 deflectors as I think one was partly broken and I never got round to replacing it.  They are cheap and just need a little drilling and cable ties to secure.  The bits you may as well keep in place are the hub block off plates (its a very thin plate that stops air just rushing through the hub and forces it thru the disc vanes) and the fibreglass ducts around the inner hub, so you could add hoses at some point if desired.

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5 minutes ago, Richard Bernau said:

Backing plates on your car were removed many, many years ago - you don't have to do anything there.  Just check the 993 deflectors as I think one was partly broken and I never got round to replacing it.  They are cheap and just need a little drilling and cable ties to secure.  The bits you may as well keep in place are the hub block off plates (its a very thin plate that stops air just rushing through the hub and forces it thru the disc vanes) and the fibreglass ducts around the inner hub, so you could add hoses at some point if desired.

The fibreglass ducts is what I meant by backing plates. Not the pressed steel jobbies on a standard car. Do those fibreglass backing duct things do anything without a hose connected up front? 

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BTW, nearly set fire to one of them during Calliper-Gate 😂

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No, they do nothing without hoses, but they don't hurt either as they are only over the hub area.  I would just leave them.

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