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Has any one fitted the new Spanish Weber’s ??

how do you find them, and I’m looking for a supplier of inlet manifolds and throttle linkages as car is currently cis

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I have it on very good authority that carbs smell of wee.

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11 hours ago, tea boy said:

I have it on very good authority that carbs smell of wee.

I was going to say I'd be concerned about that too :lol:

  • Haha 1

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Why not go to carbs ??

look good

less electronic etc

so has anyone had experience of the new Weber’s? 

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13 hours ago, Ian Comerford said:

Are you sure you want to go carbs?  Or ITBs?

With itb’s don’t I need an ecu injectors and rolling road time ??

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33 minutes ago, 8adgerx said:

Why not go to carbs ??

look good

less electronic etc

so has anyone had experience of the new Weber’s? 

Fuel consumption on carbs is a lot worse than CIS.  If that doesn’t matter to you then go for it.  The wisdom seems to be that ITBs are a better way of getting looks, performance etc

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1 hour ago, 8adgerx said:

With itb’s don’t I need an ecu injectors and rolling road time ??

Yes, yes and not necessarily. My car was tuned on the road and it has been subsequently tweaked by sending data logs to my tuner and the map adjusted and sent back. Its been tuned several times and my tuner has only been to my house twice!

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1 hour ago, Ian Comerford said:

Fuel consumption on carbs is a lot worse than CIS.  If that doesn’t matter to you then go for it.  The wisdom seems to be that ITBs are a better way of getting looks, performance etc

Not much experience with Weber’s, zero with the new models.

Not necessarily worse MPG.

If sized correctly and a good setup the MPG is very close to CIS when mincing about.

I would go as far to say it’s better when driving hard.

Part of the problem is the sizing as the most spec something that is far too big for the application.

It does take quite a bit of time to get the jetting perfect and any carburettor will always be a compromise in some part of the working range.  

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2 hours ago, 8adgerx said:

Why not go to carbs ??

 

9 mpg is a good enough reason for me.

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31 minutes ago, Leicestershire said:

Not much experience with Weber’s, zero with the new models.

Not necessarily worse MPG.

If sized correctly and a good setup the MPG is very close to CIS when mincing about.

I would go as far to say it’s better when driving hard.

Part of the problem is the sizing as the most spec something that is far too big for the application.

It does take quite a bit of time to get the jetting perfect and any carburettor will always be a compromise in some part of the working range.  

I’ve used Dell’s as a replacement for FI on my 914 and mpg isn’t affected dramatically, but agree people always oversize which makes it difficult to tune. 
Thankyou

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31 minutes ago, Leicestershire said:

Not much experience with Weber’s, zero with the new models.

Not necessarily worse MPG.

If sized correctly and a good setup the MPG is very close to CIS when mincing about.

I would go as far to say it’s better when driving hard.

Part of the problem is the sizing as the most spec something that is far too big for the application.

It does take quite a bit of time to get the jetting perfect and any carburettor will always be a compromise in some part of the working range.  

I’ve used Dell’s as a replacement for FI on my 914 and mpg isn’t affected dramatically, but agree people always oversize which makes it difficult to tune. 
Thankyou

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I got between 17 & 24 mpg on my 3.2 with IDA 46 webers on mixture of M, A & B roads. Not sure how @tea boy managed 9, even my old Jensen Interceptor III with its 7.2L block got more miles than that!

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41 minutes ago, Mondrian said:

I got between 17 & 24 mpg on my 3.2 with IDA 46 webers on mixture of M, A & B roads. Not sure how @tea boy managed 9, even my old Jensen Interceptor III with its 7.2L block got more miles than that!

Which is comparable to cis

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The air-fuel ratio for international combustion petrol engines is around 14:1. This applies to FI, carbs, turbo etc. 
With carbs, you have a number of opportunities to hit this stoichiometric ratio - idle, transition, max throttle etc. The bits either side can be a bit hit or miss. This can be minimised with the correct jets, tubes etc. Climate, altitude and other factors also influence the fuelling.

EFI offers an almost infinite number of permutations covering engine speed/ load, temperature, altitude etc.

My own quest for carbs was driven by the desire to avoid electronics (SC was the last 911 without microchips / change from working environment) and demonstrate what could be achieved if done correctly.
 

Whatever option you prefer, it is difficult to ignore the aesthetic lift they give to the engine bay, noise and instant throttle response.

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Leicestershire said:

The air-fuel ratio for international combustion petrol engines is around 14:1. This applies to FI, carbs, turbo etc. 
With carbs, you have a number of opportunities to hit this stoichiometric ratio - idle, transition, max throttle etc. The bits either side can be a bit hit or miss. This can be minimised with the correct jets, tubes etc. Climate, altitude and other factors also influence the fuelling.

EFI offers an almost infinite number of permutations covering engine speed/ load, temperature, altitude etc.

My own quest for carbs was driven by the desire to avoid electronics (SC was the last 911 without microchips / change from working environment) and demonstrate what could be achieved if done correctly.
 

Whatever option you prefer, it is difficult to ignore the aesthetic lift they give to the engine bay, noise and instant throttle response.

 

 

 

Funny, that was exactly why I bought an SC and fitted it with carbs: I wanted a car with no electronics to speak of and an induction system I could understand - even if I couldn't ever get it to run quite right!! 😉

As for the fuel consumption, does it matter as long as it is reasonably consistent, so you can plan, and the tank is big enough, so you don't have to fill up too often on a run?  Over the mileage most people put on their classics, the cost difference is probably not a major factor. 

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The cost of these new ones is just over £3k EFI close to £8k from what I can see. 
Also induction noise I already run a supercup exhaust, so manifolds and linkage are still my stumbling block atm. 

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It’s not quite that simple. 
 

I certainly don’t want to discourage you from starting this conversion but hopefully the following will assist with budgeting and timescales.

If you have a 100% stock car in good mechanical order you should be able to get a jetting setup to get you very close to a perfect tune. If anything changes from standard then you need to allow for several sets of jets remembering that everything is in sets of 6 - mains, air correctors, pump jets, idles, emulsion tubes etc. 
With a new EFI installation on a fresh engine build a long day on the rollers usually gets the map very close with perhaps a few extra hours just to add the finishing touches like cold start running etc.

With carbs you are going to spend a lot more time perfecting the tune. Most changes require a shut down and 30 mins to change jets - you will get very good a doing this!

I can still remember my first day with a carb 911 on a rolling road. After 5 hours it made 116 bhp, ran like a dog, the rear wall of the dyno room was black, kids were turning up for the evening power run sessions and were completely baffled by what seemed like a pointless exercise. You learn a lot from days like this and over the next few days found the missing horses. 

Performance upgrades also require changes to the ignition timing. Again this is easy with an ecu - click of a button without the need to stop anything.
With a distributor you need to replicate the changes by replacing springs, adjusting limit stops and plotting graphs.

Original Weber manifolds were readily available last time I looked. These are easy to open up to 39/40with a die grinder and flap wheel. 39 & 40mm steel balls work well as a go / no go gauge.  
Early magnesium manifolds are nice but the machined faces are often pitted beyond use.

 

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Sorry to jump in but not sure if you realise that Weber Carburettors have been manufactured in Spain for the last 28 years (factory was relocated to Spain in 1992).... So not really such things as new Spanish Webers 😉 (sorry but as an Official Weber Distributor I hear so often so much nonsense about Spanish Webers against Italian ones that I can't help myself to make a point of clarifying when it comes up....).

 

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39 minutes ago, fxm911 said:

Sorry to jump in but not sure if you realise that Weber Carburettors have been manufactured in Spain for the last 28 years (factory was relocated to Spain in 1992).... So not really such things as new Spanish Webers 😉 (sorry but as an Official Weber Distributor I hear so often so much nonsense about Spanish Webers against Italian ones that I can't help myself to make a point of clarifying when it comes up....).

 

I think most of thought that Weber ceased manufacturing 911 carbs back in the 70's.

Production of the IDA's restarted 2019?? in the Spanish production facility.

Even the main UK distributor lists them as New Spanish IDA's.

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20 minutes ago, Leicestershire said:

Even the main UK distributor lists them as New Spanish IDA's.

As they are new Webers and are made in Spain I don't think 'new Spanish Webers' is that inaccurate a description. 😀

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9 hours ago, tea boy said:

As they are new Webers and are made in Spain I don't think 'new Spanish Webers' is that inaccurate a description. 😀

Could say that indeed 😉 my issue is with the usual underlining meaning....... but never mind, not going to go any further on this one.

9 hours ago, Leicestershire said:

I think most of thought that Weber ceased manufacturing 911 carbs back in the 70's.

Production of the IDA's restarted 2019?? in the Spanish production facility.

Even the main UK distributor lists them as New Spanish IDA's.

Correct, 40 and 46 IDA re-introduced in 2019 and like all GENUINE Weber are manufactured at the plant in Spain. 

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1 hour ago, fxm911 said:

Could say that indeed 😉 my issue is with the usual underlining meaning....... but never mind, not going to go any further on this one.

Sorry Franck, I was just being a bit tongue in cheek, I know what you were saying.

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4 hours ago, tea boy said:

Sorry Franck, I was just being a bit tongue in cheek, I know what you were saying.

I know 🙂 

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On 03/07/2020 at 22:33, Leicestershire said:

I think most of thought that Weber ceased manufacturing 911 carbs back in the 70's.

Production of the IDA's restarted 2019?? in the Spanish production facility.

Even the main UK distributor lists them as New Spanish IDA's.

Yep they are new to the Spanish plant

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