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Hello, all. Bit of a first world problem, I wonder if you can offer some wisdom....

I am looking to build another car (yup got the disease((Not THAT disease) however the brief for this one is a little different. I have been offered a 1970, "T", however in its long and awful life it has been mutilated, by  the installation of a very nasty fake "Kremer" 935 body kit. No photos allowed, it is so repugnant! and if he saw them, I fear JG would ban me for life from this site. The car is rust free, and the nose is uncut, so with the removal of the 935 kit, a long bonnet, and wings could be fitted without surgery. Car will need engine rebuild, but my thoughts were to fit a 3.8 Vario ram, inside what would look like a std shell, any pitfalls to this? Option two, 1987 Carrera, needs nothing. But does have the (dubious) advantage of the G50, so could be fitted with as many horsepower as I can afford, with little consideration, thinking back date this also, massage engine rather than fit a 3.8 vario. First car 30% cheaper than second car, but MUCH exterior body work to be done, interior on both would be redone anyway. So the dilemma; Can I build the '87 and get it as light as the '70? Im looking for something delicate (Handling) and big power when required. Car would be used in Europe, already registered in the country of my choosing so one less bit of aggro to consider rather than shipping my already converted SC over. Any thing else to consider on the basis of the two cars? Appreciate everyone will have an opinion and ' genuinely interested. Additionally, I'm thinking that the '70, would almost be a resto, so may actually be more financially advantageous for my heirs! 

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The 70 T sounds like a longer project, but my preference.  However you could buy them both, fix & then drive the ‘87 while you crack on with the 70 T

 

I’m sure the man maths could be massaged 😂

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I agree with Ian. The 70T would be way cooler, and be a more sound financial basis. It would always be the more interesting proposition - and it already has a story to tell.

I love cars with (hi)stories....

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I have an 89 3.2 as well a 73T with S calipers & 3.2 engine. My 89 is pretty standard but have fitted a flat lid and taken off the AC in order to shed a bit of weight. The 73T is pretty sorted cosmetically but does need some suspension work as Torsion bars & dampers are not standard and no ARB. As things stand my fav all time 911 to drive is my 89 (I have owned several standard and upgraded 964's as well as 991). 73T does look cooler though and I might enjoy driving it as much as my 89 once I fine tune the suspension but I prefer to keep things period correct and not go beyond 73RS spec (will replace the engine with a 2.7RS rep too) so expect the 89 to keep its spot.

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I have a '73 T in restoration and an '83 SC. Both on standard engines.

I bought the T with an MOT and enjoyed driving it for a few months. Even with that lowly 140bhp engine I found it a more engaging drive than the SC which feels downright heavy and cumbersome in comparison. And the SC is lovely and handles as it should (4th one).

Now the T would have been particularly light on account of there being so much metal 'missing' but it was just a very different proposition and I can't imagine how fantastic that shell would be with a 210bhp engine in it never mind something more powerful.

Go with the T

Al.

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Right then........... I think that's fairly unequivocal, T it is, one last question, then I will go and get the horror, any idea how much power/Tq the gear box will stand upto, if built well? Its a dogleg so I would like to keep it if possible, however, 915 if not then no cutting and chopping under there. Thanks again all. (Except @PeterK those kind of suggestions are likely to end in a flurry of Prada!) In the spirit of full disclosure, and risking the wrath of JG, I give you exhibit A/B/C.  Oh, and over night found outfit was a custom colour from the factory.IMG_0550.thumb.JPG.d426cf4e54e55a0f0e70eb8aea912697.JPGIMG_0548.thumb.JPG.22c0f8cc00a3f43a62481896ef0d9617.JPG

IMG_0549.JPG

Edited by 8bucksagallon
add photos, correct bad language written in error
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1 hour ago, 8bucksagallon said:

Except @PeterK those kind of suggestions are likely to end in a flurry of Prada!

😇

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I would imagine that the gearbox could be rebuilt with stronger internals that would cope with the power, surely the race car’s of the same era did?

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I believe it's torque that kills a gearbox rather than HP. But as Beaky says, race cars had them. I think it's all about expectations of longevity. In a road car we expect 100,000 miles between rebuilds. In a race car it's hours. A well built 915 (with upgraded components) will probably last the kind of miles a classic gets to see these days, most folk do just a few 1000 miles annually. 

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@Chris T Agreed on your evaluation. (Un?!) fortunately I do many miles in my old nails every year. Admittedly here in SoCal the weather allows it, but the "T" being a real car will get used in every weather condition so will be year round so the miles will be a serious consideration, however if it lasts 50000 miles that's 4/5 yrs so depending on costs.........

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Indeed it is the torque that kills the box, mine is in he process of being rebuilt for my 3.2 - its going to be expensive. I believe a properly rebuilt 915 by a known specialist in states will be around $10,000 if not more. 

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The other option is, since it’s a none period engine, what about a non period gearbox. You’ll lose the dog leg and will need some work to fit it in but you now have a robust gearbox with longevity.

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27 minutes ago, Beaky said:

The other option is, since it’s a none period engine, what about a non period gearbox. You’ll lose the dog leg and will need some work to fit it in but you now have a robust gearbox with longevity.

100% this. Put something in there that isn't made from cheese.

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17 hours ago, Chris T said:

believe it's torque that kills a gearbox rather than HP

+1

17 hours ago, Chris T said:

A well built 915 (with upgraded components) will probably last the kind of miles a classic gets to see these days

+1, but...

20 hours ago, 8bucksagallon said:

Its a dogleg so I would like to keep it if possible

Being a dogleg box makes it a 901 (I think), so weaker than a 915 with less options for upgrading.

Mark

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Thanks all for your words of wisdom, and encouragement with this. Will be sad to see existing S/C missile go, but as above, both these cars are already registered in Italia, so, other than building it/them, It is one less thing to think about, and as the"T" is such a mess, its going to be nice to do a really bespoke build, rather than fiddling around the edges. @ALEX P, 901 box, I've finally found the specs for this and it really does seem to be a contender for "lowest engine power capacity 'box ever made"! doesn't seem viable for the motor that's in it!  Not to worry though, 915 and a dog leg gear knob should do it! I am going to seam weld it (well my cheque book is) so it should be as rigid as can be, been on the Google, does any one have a link as to which seams to weld, and are there any downsides to this, assuming done correctly?

Thanks again all and if there is any interest I will start a thread as build goes on, but it will be a few months before it starts. Anyone want a fabulous (?!?!?) Fake Kremer 935 body kit? going cheap.

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I actually quite like the body kit.  Maybe I need to get out more 😎

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51 minutes ago, PeterK said:

I actually quite like the body kit.  Maybe I need to get out more 😎

No Pete, you need to stay in, for a long time, somewhere secure....................................................that car is sad:cry:

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It's OK - SWMBO bought me a nice new jacket - the white ones where the sleeves tie up at the back

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