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Can you steer?


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On 08/12/2020 at 07:10, longman said:

 

Well done Paul - these are some of the hardest moments to recover in a 911.  I have had a couple of decent size 911 accidents over the years.  One was a fully controlled power oversteer slide, but failure to leave enough room for a parked car.  I was very young.  Another was a single locked brake on track that sent me sideways at about 125mph.  A little bit like Paul's vid.

I am not a driving god, but have regularly had my 911s sideways (and most other cars).  I find the "toss and catch" or lift and catch methods to be fairly intuitive.  In Daisy, it was easy initiate and drive thru power oversteer in hairpins but otherwise it was only a few degrees of lift and catch.  The 3.6 930 was a second gear drift meister - very easy to pick a corner and nail it for a grin inducing half a turn of oppo.  The 996TT was a second gear power oversteerer as well before the AWD made it straight.  The 987 was only a 10-15 oversteerer as it had no LSD. The M3 has its M button that lets you have a short leash to play with before calling time.  You just have to have cars with decent set up and pick your piece of road carefully.  The more racecar-ish your car is the more you have to take care as it all gets a bit snappy and happens quickly.

But if you want to see someone who really knows what they are doing with sideways - its Jevvy.  His 3.6 litre 3.2 is set up that way.  I spun it on my first lap driving it at Snetterton.  I blame the fact that I couldn't reach the pedals. 

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20 hours ago, Richard Bernau said:

But if you want to see someone who really knows what they are doing with sideways - its Jevvy.

There should be a fabulous video of Jevvy gurning out of his side-window at Bugatti Le Mans in his sideways 3.6 but the battery had run out on my track cam ! 

Edited by GaryH
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My education came from front drive "hot" hatches.  My first real car was a unique NZ spec AE86 Toyota - a front drive version of the iconic rear drive car we all know - which was set up by Chris Amon for Toyota NZ (springs, dampers, ARBs, tyres).  It had ridiculous levels of lift off oversteer, even compared to cars like the 205 GTi.  I drove that car everywhere covering thousands of km on country roads and managed to spin it about 6-8 times on public roads (not a source of pride, but it happened and only once requiring repairs).  That was my grounding in lift off oversteer and probably why that doesn't scare me so much.  Power oversteer - or skids - I find more challenging as you are inevitably going faster when you run out of talent and hit something.  Its also hard in 911s as they squat evenly under power and hence have huge rear end grip, unless you have a lot of hp, a very rear biased suspension set-up or deliberately unsettle them.  And there just aren't that many places to practice this stuff (unless you are young and dumb). 

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I'd recommend the porsche driving experience at Silverstone - you can take your own car. There are various options - one of them is you and an instructor for an hour going on whatever facilities you want to use - I spent the whole hour on the low-grip circuit which was magnificent. First time I went was a general introduction and you can try the kick plate, ice-hill, fast handling circuit - all in your own car. Second time I had the one hour driving - absolutely loved it.

No idea what they are doing in whoops-apocalypse world

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On 15/12/2020 at 11:32, Richard Bernau said:

But if you want to see someone who really knows what they are doing with sideways - its Jevvy.  His 3.6 litre 3.2 is set up that way.  I spun it on my first lap driving it at Snetterton.  I blame the fact that I couldn't reach the pedals. 

Ha it was certainly drift spec setup 😆

Everyone spins that car the first time they drive it - well except babs 😇

My dad having a lap at Lemans in 2009

[img]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50747898637_2c2ddaeefe_c.jpg[/img]

And his skidmarks after being used to a 2CV throttle pedal.

[img]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50747898682_0a3a09abe2_c.jpg[/img]

Practice is where you build confidence and lower the fear with plenty of space to not damage things if you get it wrong - this was a fun day at Curborough in 2011 - pre HD!

 

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Ah, the pre-HD days. Loving your work Jevvy.

I think a lot of catching it is pretty intuitive but you have to be in the right frame of mind. I did a job for a PR lady friend at Bedfordshire County Council once, writing a brochure for adventure/high-octane experiences around the county. They took me on a day with a bunch of journos. It was like Monster truck stuff, rallycross, indoor skydiving, wakeboarding etc. We ended up at Bedford Autodrome where we did a half-day session in four types of cars.

I had been to Bedford on car launches a few times and knew full well that it was all competitive - they didn't tell you this until the end, though. Was totally pissed off to miss Driver of the Day first time but never forgot again. The motoring guy from The Sun was also there and we had been on some car launches together, so we both knew it was competitive. We did single seaters, those Jag LMP things with dual controls, Clio Cup and GT3s. We were absolutely flat out everywhere and GT3s were last up. I was behind as I won Clios but came second on the other two. I don't know how I did it as I am no 911 slider - tried it countless times on rally experiences and no chance - but this GT3 was flat out sideways everywhere. Sun guy came third in GT3s and yours truly won the day. PR friend was impressed; top five proudest moments! Briliant job and good memories.

I think if you are motivated and remember you have a throttle that needs using in the moment and not a tenth later then you can catch most stuff. Being there in the moment with the throttle pedal is the skill I find hardest to master. It is demoralising when it fails but you have to persevere. Having the right teacher is key; the guys at Bedford are all racers - both my passengers in Clios and GT3s were champions in their categories - and they really did the trick. So satisfying!! I doubt I could repeat it - actually I know I couldn't and am happy with that :D

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  • 1 month later...

Learning to left foot brake was my car control break through.

With left foot braking I can catch the car immediately.

Left foot braking allows me to control transfer of weight to front or rear and induce under or over steer immediately. 

You can control a lot of the rotation with just the brake and gas pedals.

randywells-9262s.jpg.f93f70a6155a2d261be2342ed6b4d466.jpg

 

Edited by Michael
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On 10/02/2021 at 15:28, Michael said:

Learning to left foot brake was my car control break through.

With left foot braking I can catch the car immediately.

Left foot braking allows me to control transfer of weight to front or rear and induce under or over steer immediately. 

You can control a lot of the rotation with just the brake and gas pedals.

randywells-9262s.jpg.f93f70a6155a2d261be2342ed6b4d466.jpg

 

Hmmm interesting, must try this, thanks

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