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Engine and system shut down - Immobiliser?


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Guys - your help please!

Now that we in the UK are allowed to venture little further afield, I'm dusting off my '84 3.2 Carerra Cab - MoT planned next week etc.

After an immediate startup and completely normal running for c10 mins, I'd left the car idling whilst I checked oil levels etc - when it just cut out, with all systems completely dead. I went through the start up sequence again - insert immobiliser jack, little red light flashes quickly, remove jack, ignition on, gauges spring into life, energise starter motor, engine springs into life and runs for 30-40 seconds (during which the immobiliser light continues to flash) - then cut out, gauges shut down, ignition dead, immobiliser red light off. Repeat the above - exactly the same, 30-40 seconds normal tick over then dead.

I've whizzed round all main earths and cleaned, reset. Tried swapping the DME relay - but thought that wouldn't shut down ignition etc anyway?

My manual doesn't show an immobiliser so I'm not sure if it's original or aftermarket by a previous owner. The immobiliser has a 5mm dia jack key, key point immediately above the ignition key position. I'm not even sure whether that's the issue and if so even where it is!!

I hope that someone can shed some light on this.

Thanks Richard  

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If you didn't start the engine, after a while (30-40 seconds?) the immobiliser would automatically re-arm itself. What stops it doing this must be a signal to stop it re-arming. I haven't fitted one for ages but perhaps a wire going to something that only becomes live when alternator is rotating and therefore generating? I'd check my fuse box connections and if it is connected the the fused side, all the fuses too. Perhaps it's fed from the 'run' position of the ignition key? Either way a couple of checks for you.

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I would time it to see exactly how long it takes to cut out, if its within a second every time it must be the imobiliser

 

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Sounds like yours is a Porsche immobiliser..I had one on my 89 3.2 and I remember it had its own manual. The key thingy deactivates the immobilise for a short while to allow the car to start  and run. I can’t remember but it was a very short while before it would reset.Have you tried leaving the key thing in? 

The control box was under the passenger footboard.

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Guys,

Thanks for the advice - I'll go through the fuses, but strange it fires and runs fine for a short time, then dead, then re-inserting the immobiliser key re-energises everything.  I'll time the start to stop period - they are all pretty consistent.

I've spent some of today going over all remaining earth points in desperation!

I'll see if I can locate the immobiliser by tracing wiring - I'm not sure what I'm looking for, but the only items under the passenger seat are the ECU, altitude module and the DME so it's not there!

I'll let you know how I get on.

Richard

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3 minutes ago, richard s said:

Guys,

Thanks for the advice - I'll go through the fuses, but strange it fires and runs fine for a short time, then dead, then re-inserting the immobiliser key re-energises everything.  I'll time the start to stop period - they are all pretty consistent.

I've spent some of today going over all remaining earth points in desperation!

I'll see if I can locate the immobiliser by tracing wiring - I'm not sure what I'm looking for, but the only items under the passenger seat are the ECU, altitude module and the DME so it's not there!

I'll let you know how I get on.

Richard

Mine was under the passenger footboard up the top , left I think.

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I think i may have the same system as yourself. The company who make (I think) the immobiliser are called Hamilton & Palmer, I ordered a couple of replacement coded immobiliser fobs off of them a year or two ago along with a replacement barrel, they were very helpful on the phone so might be able to assist.

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It's unusual for the gauges to be wired through the immobiliser - usually it's things like the fuel pump and the starter circuits.

Have you checked that the battery connections are clean and tight?

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On 22/04/2021 at 15:55, richard s said:

 

The immobiliser has a 5mm dia jack key, key point immediately above the ignition key position. 

That doesn't sound like the Hamilton Palmer (Porsche) one. The Hamilton Palmer has a flat key  with a circuit showing at the front and is usually in the centre console.

immob.jpg

Edited by Roy M
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Guys - thanks as always for your help.  

Another afternoon on this - the good news is the problem seems to have resolved itself - albeit after more connectors cleaning/resetting, battery terminal clean and tighten, etc - so I'm not sure what (if anything) actually fixed it.

I suppose the bad news is that I'm not really convinced that's it and will always have in the back of my mind that it may just cut out again! So, I've traced the wiring - the unit is under the driver side dash, hidden behind the heater blower unit. Sadly it isn't the official Porsche or Hamilton Palmer model like Roy's or Graham's - its an "AutoJack 10E Ref LBSTY" (completely sealed tubular unit 5 or 6 wires in/out)) which is quaintly described on the internet as "classic vintage immobiliser" and apparently are no longer in existence (one internet thread suggests bought by Toad). My conundrum now is do I just trust to luck and hope it remains OK, or strip it out and replace. The latter may be more difficult than it sounds as the wiring has been quite professionally integrated into the loom and largely lost amongst the tangle of other owner retrofit radio, speakers, phone etc cabling.  I'll see if I can find a reliable AutoJack wiring diagram before I do anything further.

Thanks again,

Richard

 

 

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From an internet search;

Thanks all for the helpful words about my "Autojack" immobiliser. I took the thing out today and the car's running fine without it. For the record the connections and colours were as follows:

live to unit - black
live to unit via ignition switch - black
earth - black
live from starter switch to unit - black
unit to starter solenoid - black
unit to warning light - black
warning light return - black
unit to jack-key - black
unit to jack-key 2 - black
jack-key return - black
PLUS 4 other unconnected wires, taped off - black

I put the colours in to save time for anyone else faced with this job! http://forum.difflock.com/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

Actually the only thing it was isolating was the solenoid - I'd have thought a hidden switch costing about £1.50 would have done as well.

 

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I used to have a hidden solenoid cut off switch on my old SJ410. My mate used to find it hilarious to surreptitiously switch it off when we were zipping along - most disconcerting the first time he did it on the motorway!!

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1 hour ago, Type911 said:

:rlol:

Yes - not the most useful post in the world was it!

 

Hopefully of more help - I once had a CAT2 immobiliser fitted to my Golf GTI by a mobile service - all the connections were done in the steering cowl so must have been around the ignition switch which would therefore seem to be a good place to start if you're wanting to disconnect the thing.

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I'd be tempted to rip the whole lot out and bin it. immobiliser must be No.1 cause of no start failures. If the insurance insist upon one then a simple device like a Toad Sterling Excel (no holes in dashboard required) should do.

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Roy - a beer in the sun sounds good! I'd seen the eBay add too - it's a different model and looking at wiring diagram photo not a lot of use. I had thought to mail the seller and ask for a scan of the full diagram - a bit cheeky?  I think Chris has the right idea - just remove it.

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  • 2 weeks later...

+1 for removing it.

On a slightly different note I had some no-name alarm installed that I wanted a spare remote for, after numerous enquiries I found the company that made them could no longer program a new fob thus leaving me with no alternative but to replace the whole alarm, otherwise if I ever lost or damaged the remote I'd be in trouble.

My electrics guy removed it all and replaced it with a thoroughly modern system that integrated with the central locking thus giving me keyless entry and immobilisation all in one plus being Thatcham approved. Cost a few quid but well worth the expense, and I now have a spare remote.

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