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Posted
2 hours ago, 911hillclimber said:

Many people do not understand a UK hillclimb and the way the cars are hammered, usually on wide open throttle and to the red line repeatedly but bouncing off the rev limiter for quite short periods, around 5 seconds.

Perhaps not altogether unlike drag racing, something an American supplier like Dougherty’s might also be more familiar with?

Posted
3 hours ago, 911hillclimber said:

I've emailed Steve recently about the rods asking if the 3.2 stock rods/arp bolts could tolerate 7500 and his response was no comment, just fit Carrillos!

From that response I assume the answer is no....

Thus, I've settled on Pauter rods, have to make some decisions on this lot, and have had a doubt put in my mind about the Wossner pistons having pockets deep enough for the DC60 cams, so another email to try to resolve. I can buy the pistons from Design911 so saving Brexit etc shipping hassles (Wossner are German).

Biggest sticking point are the cams.

Seems Kent cams are not enthusiastic, Dougherty certainly are, just in the USA, but they have been clear what is right in some detail.

Hope to send orders very soon so kicking this little project off. Many people do not understand a UK hillclimb and the way the cars are hammered, usually on wide open throttle and to the red line repeatedly but bouncing off the rev limiter for quite short periods, around 5 seconds.

 

I think your summary of the position of the aircooled engine is spot-on.

 

Posted

Graham I did get a quote for a 911 camshaft from Newman cams back in 2019 and he seemed very aware of the designs for GE40 and DC40 that I asked for. I did not buy from him at the time, but I think the price was £510 + vat (probably each) and they were able to produce in about 2 weeks. Dougherty did take many weeks to supply although the quality does appear to be good.

Posted

Things have moved on £££ wise!

However...

Kent cams have come up trumps. They have a cam the same as the DC60, GE 60 which I think is the Garretson Enterprises cam.

A pair is £912 inc vat. They do a spring set too for about £510 so I will order those.

Have asked (emailed) Wossner UK to confirm their pistons have pockets to take the GE60 lift.

JE pistons are 2 x the cost of Wossner. The difference pays for the cams!

Pauter rods are on 8 weeks lead time, so ordering those tomorrow.

Starting to come together, wife very supportive!

Posted (edited)

Utterly brilliant!

Never knew they did them and the price of wossner.

The £2000 price was from Design911.

Job done, and thank you again. I'll go for the 10.5 ratio.

Put a smile on my face!

Edited by 911hillclimber
Posted
On 17/09/2021 at 12:11, 911hillclimber said:

 but bouncing off the rev limiter for quite short periods, around 5 seconds.

How is rev limiter implemented in the car’s current guise?

If it is using the standard rotor arm with the sprung plunger, then the ignition is cut completely.   That must be losing you a lot of time.  It’s also really bad for the engine.

On our CDI+ we employ a two stage limiter.    The first stage is by retard of the ignition.   You can feel this as a reduction of power but you can drive through it.   The second stage is a cyclic ignition cut where you can specify the cylinder firing scheme.  The default is cut 4, fire the 5th.  This gives the effect of still igniting the fuel in each cylinder on a cyclic basis which prevents fuel wash.  You can truly drive on the limiter in this mode.   
 

Both limiters are programmable for RPM and there is also a shift light output too. 

Posted

Jonny: yes, running the crude rotor arm cut out.

Have also an aftermarket rev 'warning light' but that has never worked, and hard to set the trigger point. however, it all happens quickly on a hill climb and there is no time to look at the rev counter on 2 of the 3 hills or anything else except the track and looming bends.

At Shelsley Walsh I hit the rev limiter once for about 3 secs flat in 3rd, Prescott twice, 2nd and 3rd gears, and Loton once in third.

If I can I might just judge it so i max out but not hit the limiter, but that is hard to judge consistently.

I have not thought too much about ignition on this forthcoming engine, single or twin spark, but I suspect it will be twin in some manner.

Lots of time to think/enquire how to do that cost and technically 'effectivly'.

Posted
21 hours ago, 911hillclimber said:

Fingers crossed!

Are you at Shelsley tomorrow?

Yes let's hope they are included in price.

Sadly not at Shelsley today due to eye surgery 10 days ago, hopefully 2022 will be a better season!

Posted

Yes, i was told in the paddock. Good luck with a speedy recovery.

Was going to treat you to a coffee and cake too!

Next year.

I will be doing a small thread on this engine build, please take a look, I'll need all the help I can get...

Posted
1 hour ago, 911hillclimber said:

Jonny: yes, running the crude rotor arm cut out.

Have also an aftermarket rev 'warning light' but that has never worked, and hard to set the trigger point. however, it all happens quickly on a hill climb and there is no time to look at the rev counter on 2 of the 3 hills or anything else except the track and looming bends.

At Shelsley Walsh I hit the rev limiter once for about 3 secs flat in 3rd, Prescott twice, 2nd and 3rd gears, and Loton once in third.

If I can I might just judge it so i max out but not hit the limiter, but that is hard to judge consistently.

I have not thought too much about ignition on this forthcoming engine, single or twin spark, but I suspect it will be twin in some manner.

Lots of time to think/enquire how to do that cost and technically 'effectivly'.

Exactly my point.   There is no need to look at the tacho if you have a proper rev limiter.  

Posted

Agree. The 'shift light' is on the rim of the tacho which is right behind the steering wheel, much like the 911 is laid out.

My last meeting is this coming weekend and the car can then be stripped and the current distributor etc put to one side not to be used again.

The ignition side is something to be resolved but first I'm on the chase to get parts here asap as many of the parts I need are coming from the USA and I worry about the lead times being banded about, 8 weeks and more.

The heads will be machined for twin plugs, that's easy, what to use to provide the spark is not so easy to settle on as you know from my other threads on DDK to sort this lot out as simply as possible.

I'm keeping the carbs so just something to fire the engine accurately and with programability that the local rolling road man can understand/ map.

I imagine most 'ECU' controllers will have a soft rev limiter.

Posted
14 hours ago, 911hillclimber said:

Yes, i was told in the paddock. Good luck with a speedy recovery.

Was going to treat you to a coffee and cake too!

Next year.

I will be doing a small thread on this engine build, please take a look, I'll need all the help I can get...

Sorry to miss the coffee and cake, as you say next year!

I will look out for your engine thread with interest, happy to help if I can.

Posted (edited)

Good to read!

Never done a high performance 911 engine, just stock rebuilds, so looking forward to it.

It will save me buying a knackered old motorcycle to restore for Winter hibernation entertainment, probably why the wife is happy to give me a permission to do this engine, spend money on something useful...

Looks like things have boiled down to some simple (payment) actions. Found a supplier in the UK who can do the right JE piston set with all the bits plus Carrillo rods with the extra strong bolts as a package, for £2800 inc vat.

Waiting on the delivery time (might be months) before flexing the Card. Seems nothing is kept in stock.

WEVO gearbox part in stock, so will order that very soon and get the 'box Man in the Lakes booked in.

Arranged winter storage for the 911 to give me space to spread the engine out; they are huge when in bits.

Rebuild to start mid October when the hillclimb season is finally all done n dusted.

 

Need to find out how to post pictures on this site. Nothing I usually do seems to work.

What is the secret?

Lola-at-Shelsley.jpg

Edited by 911hillclimber
  • Like 1
Posted

Committed now.

Pistons and rods on order, 12 week wait(!)

WEVO gearbox gate in stock so will buy in a few weeks time and get the box underway at MB Engineering.

Cams can come next and all the smaller parts like shell bearings.

Going Twin spark from the off, considering Clewett.

Last race meeting this weekend, a rest, then the strip down starts.

  • 1 year later...
Posted

It's been a little bit more than 12 weeks, have you made any progress building the engine yet Mr. 911hillclimber? 😎

 

I am also crunching numbers on my tired 3.2 that I need to rebuild, it's a slippery slope when you start considering that it's only a few hundred more for X upgrade while I am in there.... 😅 

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