(not so) Thin edge of the wedge

[SurlySurdi]

I've just read the following article from the regit.cars website, one day in the (hopefully very) distant future this may affect all of us...

UK driving towards mandatory speed limiters on all new cars 2022

All new vehicles sold in the UK from 2022 will be fitted with speed limiters, it’s been revealed.

Despite no longer being in the EU, it is expected that the United Kingdom will adopt the same regulation as the European Commission which reached a provisional agreement that all new vehicles sold in Europe will be fitted with a speed limiter as a legal requirement from 6 July 2022.

The 2019/2044 regulation also states that all new cars that have already launched be fitted with an Intelligent Speed Assist (ISA) by 7 July 2024.

While it hasn’t been signed off, it is widely expected the UK will likely obey the new road safety regulations. Following this agreement also helps in standardising the car manufacturing process for different markets which in turn boosts our own production capabilities. 

It’s thought the use of speed limiters will take the industry a step closer towards fully automised and self-driving cars which, until recently, seemed something only seen in sci-fi. 

Can you remove a speed limiter?

Currently, the regulation permits you to switch the speed limiter off, although it’s unclear if that will be adapted.

Those who don’t want the shackles of a speed limiter, or even those looking to maintain a better fuel economy, may well look at removing the speed limiter from their cars and there’s no doubt that this will be able to be done – it may even become a dark art for garages across the country. 

Why are speed limiters being introduced?

It is hoped the use of speed limiters will help to reduce road accidents. The European Transport Safety Council (ETSC) – which has been pushing for the mandatory speed limiters – has said the move will reduce collisions by 30%. The European Commission has said the speed limiters (along with other measures included in the legislation) could prevent 140,000 serious road traffic injuries by 2038. Overall, it hopes to cut road deaths to zero by 2050.

 

[Richot1989]

👎👎👎

No doubt they may want all our classic cars to be retrospectively fitted with such devices!! 

The only way they can cut road deaths to zero is by banning everything (cars, motorbikes, bicycles, pedestrians etc, etc, )from using the roads!!

[tea boy]

Speed per se is not the issue, the issue is stuff driving...

[Chris T]

100% Agree with hot beverage boy. Speed isn't the issue it's bad and dangerous driving, of which just one example is inappropriate speed.... Problem is you cannot measure bad driving so it's dumbed down to the level of the worst driver on the road.

[TargaWayne]

As others have said it's not speed, it's bad driving. From earlier this year
 

Quote

 

A lorry driver who was filmed texting on his mobile phone moments before he crashed into a broken-down van, injuring three people, has been jailed.
Derek Holland crashed into a stationary security van on the A27, in East Sussex, injuring the van's driver, a prison escort and a prisoner on board.
When Sussex Police examined footage from Holland's cab cameras they found he had also taken both hands off the wheel to peel a banana while driving.
He was jailed for over three years.

Police found 42 separate incidents of poor driving during Holland's four-hour journey prior to the crash, which happened near Lewes, just before 11.00 BST on 10 August 2020.
These included the almost continuous use of his mobile phone while not wearing a seatbelt, and taking both hands off the wheel to peel a banana and to wave while at traffic lights, a police spokesman said.
He added: "Throughout the journey, he used a replica seatbelt buckle in the socket to prevent the alarm from activating, and only put his actual seatbelt on when he pulled up behind a police car at a set of traffic lights.
"As soon as the police vehicle was out of sight, he removed the belt again.

 

Trucks have speed limiters, but they don't protect against stupid.

**ps not having a go at truck drivers, hard job and most are very skilled drivers. 

Edited August 27, 2021 by TargaWayne

[Dyaque]

I think a massive part of the problem is the gradual removal of feedback from new cars over the last decades. The whole reason I went for an IB is the visceral experience. A 964 tested back-to-back against a 3.2 just had less to it. Yes it was quicker but it was more removed. In an IB or anything from the 80s and before, you really know you're doing 40 and 70 is a thing. But now I am followed at 80 on B roads by what looks like perfectly a reasonable-looking (as in, not a thug or racer) a young girl on her way to work in her Fiesta who (massive assumption on my part) has no idea how fast she's really going or how long it will take to stop.

The sooner the masses for whom driving is a chore not a pleasure are removed from having to do it themselves, the sooner the accident stats will fall. Until then, I fear blind blanket dumbing down for us all...

[alastair]

In the workplace we need "training" for everything, starting with "manual handling" through health & safety, operating specific equipment etc.

This "training" then requires regular "refresher training" - in the event of an accident or incident, having completed training x years before carries little weight unless refresher training has been undertaken regularly and has been documented as such.

Vehicles require an annual MoT test annually on the third anniversary of being registered on the road, but most would agree that it is people that cause accidents not vehicle failures.

All drivers should be required to undertake a competency test at specified intervals (5/ 10 years?) after initially obtaining their license - this would include questions relating to the Highway Code to reflect changes to driving patterns that occur through time.

Just my  worth

[Dyaque]

I'd like to rephrase that.

Modern mass-produced vans and hatchbacks are pretty much as quick as supercars of the 80s, without any of the feedback or "experience" of driving. Speed is definitely a factor but, as is said many times above, awareness of and use of that speed is (to my mind) often the critical difference. 

I may also have exaggerated my experiences in backroads. Truth is, I rarely get above 60 before better sense takes over... 😇

4 minutes ago, alastair said:

All drivers should be required to undertake a competency test at specified intervals (5/ 10 years?) after initially obtaining their license - this would include questions relating to the Highway Code to reflect changes to driving patterns that occur through time.

So good to hear; I've been saying this for years!

And everyone objects! 

And when tested on why they're objecting, it's because they know they'd fail! 🤣

But imagine the job creation as well as the general improvement in driving. I don't understand why so much effort goes into limiting behaviour rather than improving it.

Edited August 27, 2021 by Dyaque
Typo

[njpcarrera32]

2 hours ago, Dyaque said:

I don't understand why so much effort goes into limiting behaviour rather than improving it.

Because it is easier and simpler to do that for the powers that be.  Remember their decisions are based on two things: where they are in the electoral cycle (Joe Biden's decision to pull out of Afghanistan), and how much flak they will cop in the media which tends to be driven by the loudest voices not the most coherent and logical (Extinction Rebellion).

[Chris T]

Re-training costs money, and would be generally unpopular. Fining innocent motorists raise huge amounts of revenue. Imagine how much revenue will be raised by 'smart' motorways, they work 24/7 even when specific restrictions aren't in place. Take away the hard shoulder? Great idea, and I thought they were trying to SAVE lives....

[alastair]

On 27/08/2021 at 13:11, Chris T said:

Re-training costs money, and would be generally unpopular. Fining innocent motorists raise huge amounts of revenue. Imagine how much revenue will be raised by 'smart' motorways, they work 24/7 even when specific restrictions aren't in place. Take away the hard shoulder? Great idea, and I thought they were trying to SAVE lives....

Learning to drive costs money.

Taking a driving test costs money.

Renewing your photo driving licence every 10 years costs money.

Getting your vehicle MoT'ed every year costs money.

However, everyone accepts these costs.

Cost is irrelevant - think of the savings in reduced number of accidents etc if the incompetent were taken off the road.

[GaryH]

On 26/08/2021 at 21:26, tea boy said:

Speed per se is not the issue, the issue is stuff driving...

This ^^^^^^^^ 👍 

[GaryH]

On 27/08/2021 at 09:41, alastair said:

All drivers should be required to undertake a competency test at specified intervals (5/ 10 years?) after initially obtaining their license - this would include questions relating to the Highway Code to reflect changes to driving patterns that occur through time.

Just my  worth

Absolutely. 

But unfortunately will never happen as it's viewed as electoral suicide. 

Same reason that making people retake some form of driving test when they reach 70 will never happen

 

[Richard Bernau]

Nobody wants to be a better driver.  Everybody thinks they are good enough.

I remember what a hard time I had trying to get some of you lot to learn how to heel-n-toe back when we all did track days.  An essential skill for that kind of driving.  And you lot are the good guys, the enthusiasts, the ones who take some pride in being 'good' drivers.

Try telling your husband/wife/partner some aspect of their driving needs improving.  Prepare to sleep on the couch.

I am actually not as anti speed limits as I used to be as the least worst, actually implementable, admittedly imperfect, bandaid solution.  And I hate myself for saying that.

[GaryH]

12 hours ago, Richard Bernau said:

I remember what a hard time I had trying to get some of you lot to learn how to heel-n-toe back when we all did track days.

Oi ! I resemble that remark  😆

[njpcarrera32]

12 hours ago, Richard Bernau said:

Nobody wants to be a better driver.  Everybody thinks they are good enough.

I remember what a hard time I had trying to get some of you lot to learn how to heel-n-toe back when we all did track days.  An essential skill for that kind of driving.  And you lot are the good guys, the enthusiasts, the ones who take some pride in being 'good' drivers.

Agreed, and we're all getting worse rather than better because our 'modern' cars are full of stuff that makes us lazy: automatic transmission, 'intelligent' cruise control, collision avoidance systems, etc.