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HELP! car won’t start


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Well, that’s it, safely home.  The car started with no trouble this morning and did 340 miles today, mostly at motorway speeds.  Still fluffy at half throttle but it got us here.  2,256 miles in two weeks, around 26mpg overall and only three bump starts needed in total.  I think there are two issues at least, one of which is fuelling related and then there is the battery and a possible problem with the CDI+ which will be going in the post tomorrow to Jonny.  Next is to check the battery when cranking but I think I a, resigned to replacing it with something that has more power appropriate to the starter's needs.  
More to follow but a genuine thanks to everyone that has offered thoughts, knowledge, experience and help.  It has been really appreciated and just shows what a good place this is to be.

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:woohoo:   Glad all 3 of you are back home safe and sound!

Well done Ian and especially Mrs Comerford too

From experience having doubts about your car while driving across Europe doesn't make for the most relaxing of drives

 

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Glad you got back safely Ian. I installed a BM2 battery monitor, as demonstrated by Peter earlier in this thread, at the weekend to monitor and test my own battery easily given my own recent starting issues. I have the same CDI+ as you remember, bought together, so I am interested to hear the outcome, although my issue is not the same as yours (no cranking at all).

It started fine since getting back from Gilks and I am off on a Welsh roadtrip in it later this week 🤞

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12 minutes ago, Lesworth said:

Glad you got back safely Ian. I installed a BM2 battery monitor, as demonstrated by Peter earlier in this thread, at the weekend to monitor and test my own battery easily given my own recent starting issues. I have the same CDI+ as you remember, bought together, so I am interested to hear the outcome, although my issue is not the same as yours (no cranking at all).

It started fine since getting back from Gilks and I am off on a Welsh roadtrip in it later this week 🤞

Great Les. Could you take a screengrab of the cranking voltage test please and post it in this thread. Can you make it a cold start after being left at least overnight !

Thanks

Peter

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Here you go Peter. First off Battery condition after being left overnight:

3.thumb.jpg.2b75dbbe7ff8dc75f0e541a39415c594.jpg

Next,  cold cranking test. I messed up as my phone wasn't connected to the BM2 when I started it. Immediately shut it off, waited for it to connect and the tried again so although a cold start, it fired instantly as fuel pressure was up etc.

1.thumb.jpg.9f782b5b1f2040292d38614793fb281e.jpg

Lastly, I also did a charging test.

2.thumb.jpg.4787c5a1a7d238bb6f7fe1b0519aad18.jpg

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15 hours ago, World Citizen said:

:woohoo:   Glad all 3 of you are back home safe and sound!

Well done Ian and especially Mrs Comerford too

From experience having doubts about your car while driving across Europe doesn't make for the most relaxing of drives

 

You’re absolutely right, especially the night before the next stage of the trip when you wonder if it will start in the morning……

14 hours ago, Robos911 said:

Fantastic! The excitement makes it more of an adventure but sometimes boring is nice👍

Agree completely!

3 hours ago, Lesworth said:

Glad you got back safely Ian. I installed a BM2 battery monitor, as demonstrated by Peter earlier in this thread, at the weekend to monitor and test my own battery easily given my own recent starting issues. I have the same CDI+ as you remember, bought together, so I am interested to hear the outcome, although my issue is not the same as yours (no cranking at all).

It started fine since getting back from Gilks and I am off on a Welsh roadtrip in it later this week 🤞

Thanks Les, fingers crossed for your trip.  Your volts look quite low on cranking, was your battery on a conditioner beforehand?

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22 minutes ago, Lesworth said:

Conditioner for a couple of days and a two hour drive yesterday. The test above was just before attempting the start and shows as 12.69v and the cranking voltage was 10.15 which seems to be good?

Hi Les

I suggest you repeat the test tomorrow (without any conditioning) from cold with bluetooth fired up and take a look at that. On the face of it looks OK but you are just above 10V and I personally wouldn't want to go sub 10V. Remind me what battery spec you have please ?

Ian is purchasing a BM2 so we will have another set of results to compare is with tomorrow.

My cranking voltage this morning from cold was 12.93V (and I have a Brise 2kW starter like Ian) versus your 10.15V so quite a hefty difference.

We had a go at Ian's car this morning (started first time!) which had been CTEK charging overnight and with a fully charged battery and my old digital voltmeter which is slow to respond and therefore misleading seemed to be dropping to 10.4V We will check this tomorrow with the BM2 and no overnight charging and see what that tells us

Peter

Edited by carrpet
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17 hours ago, Nige said:

If you got to swap batteries out it might be worth investing in one of these so you don't pull your back whilst lifting it out of the car. 

 

handle.jpg

Nige, how do you not short your battery out with your magnificent lifter ?

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Nige, is that modelled on your girdle? Looks a little tight to me ;)

Will do Peter. Starter is a WOSP LMS993, which looks to be 1.4kw. Its been on the car for a couple of years now with no issues thus far (assuming the few recent times its hasn't cranked is not the starter at fault.

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1 minute ago, Lesworth said:

Nige, is that modelled on your girdle? Looks a little tight to me ;)

Will do Peter. Starter is a WOSP LMS993, which looks to be 1.4kw. Its been on the car for a couple of years now with no issues thus far (assuming the few recent times its hasn't cranked is not the starter at fault.

And what is your battery spec Les

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45 minutes ago, Lesworth said:

Varta 12v - nothing fancy

The capacity in Ah and CCA will be printed on the battery if you can see it ?

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On 18/04/2022 at 21:32, Ian Comerford said:

Well, that’s it, safely home.  The car started with no trouble this morning and did 340 miles today, mostly at motorway speeds.  Still fluffy at half throttle but it got us here.  2,256 miles in two weeks, around 26mpg overall and only three bump starts needed in total.  I think there are two issues at least, one of which is fuelling related and then there is the battery and a possible problem with the CDI+ which will be going in the post tomorrow to Jonny.  Next is to check the battery when cranking but I think I a, resigned to replacing it with something that has more power appropriate to the starter's needs.  
More to follow but a genuine thanks to everyone that has offered thoughts, knowledge, experience and help.  It has been really appreciated and just shows what a good place this is to be.

OK, got the CDI+ back today and ran it on our test rig - video below.    300+ V on the output right down to 8V so I don't think this is the issue.   

 

 

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The good news is your back safe and sound and the car all in my piece.

Locations and photos looked lovely, we should follow that same route as an IB road trip :rolleyes:

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5 hours ago, Lesworth said:

Cold cranking test - no conditioner / overnight charging:

2.thumb.jpg.4b2d34e69c0aaa77363f189f4bc7b4ef.jpg

1.thumb.jpg.baa4b2ae8d52a463f14c5eb55b118710.jpg

Les,

All of that looks good with a battery with plenty of CCAs (780A) plenty of Ah (75Ah) and a 1.4kW starter. 

You are clearly not near the edge of the safe operating window of the battery

Peter

 

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6 minutes ago, Lesworth said:

Thanks Peter. Its starting fine at the moment and a two day road trip to Wales tomorrow will be a good test. The BM2 is a great little gadget 👍🏼

Hi Les,

Yes your road trip will be a good test of how low your cranking voltage gets on a cold start

Ian should have received his BM2 today so we should have some more data soon with a smaller battery

Peter

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7 hours ago, Jonny Hart said:

OK, got the CDI+ back today and ran it on our test rig - video below.    300+ V on the output right down to 8V so I don't think this is the issue.   

 

 

Hi Jonny,

Thanks for getting stuck into this so quickly, really appreciate it and also the feedback.  Please let me know whatever costs have been incurred and I look forward to getting the box back and continuing the search for the real problem.  
 

Ian

1 hour ago, carrpet said:

Hi Les,

Yes your road trip will be a good test of how low your cranking voltage gets on a cold start

Ian should have received his BM2 today so we should have some more data soon with a smaller battery

Peter

I’ve got the BM2 and it’s fitted and working.  After 24 hours off the conditioner the battery is currently sitting at 12.90v and that is after three consecutive start cycles yesterday.  I will be taking it out tomorrow so will be interested to see what the BM2 finds.

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I bought one of those monitors too. 

I’ve got one of these batteries on my car: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12V-22AH-MOTORSPORT-LIGHTWEIGHT-6KG-RALLY-COMPETITION-RACING-CAR-BATTERY-/111177129078?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=710-127635-2958-0

The charts below are after a short 10 mile drive. Prior to that the car had been stood for nearly 3 weeks. I think the first time I started the cranking voltage was 9.8 - something like that, but it fired up after 1 second. 
 

It’s a cool little device, I’m going to order another for my transporter.  

94215F17-962B-4702-9A7E-5F225453FCCA.jpeg

A5AFE0B7-D6F0-4F2B-B661-4C2430B7FE98.jpeg

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8 hours ago, Northy said:

I bought one of those monitors too. 

I’ve got one of these batteries on my car: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12V-22AH-MOTORSPORT-LIGHTWEIGHT-6KG-RALLY-COMPETITION-RACING-CAR-BATTERY-/111177129078?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=710-127635-2958-0

The charts below are after a short 10 mile drive. Prior to that the car had been stood for nearly 3 weeks. I think the first time I started the cranking voltage was 9.8 - something like that, but it fired up after 1 second. 
 

It’s a cool little device, I’m going to order another for my transporter.  

94215F17-962B-4702-9A7E-5F225453FCCA.jpeg

A5AFE0B7-D6F0-4F2B-B661-4C2430B7FE98.jpeg

Thanks ! It is interesting that the voltage dropped to about 8V initially.

It would be helpful if you could repeat the test with a cold start without a drive first and publish the info from BM2 App

I would like to see how low the voltage gets with a cold start / cold engine etc.

I note that there appears to be CCA specification for this battery

What starter motor are you using and what ignition unit CDI CDI+ etc

Thanks

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