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EFI & ITBs where would your money go?


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I’ll start with my SC is running OK. However, I’m a dick and a glutton for punishment, so I keep coming back to thinking I should fit ITBs and EFI to it. 

I know it won’t add much power, I know it will be expensive and take a lot of time. But I’m a geek, I like tech and to tinker with the car. But they will sound amazing, look great and have mega throttle response. I don’t care about the originality, it’s a bitsa already. 

So if you were doing ITBs and EFI, how would you spend the money? Triumph throttle bodies and a mega squirt, Jenvey and Omex or Rasant and Motech? 

Anyone got any real world feedback? Or links to decent places to help me do my homework? 
 

 

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I fitted Jenvey & Emerald ECU to my Zetec powered Lotus Elan Plus 2.  It’s easy to home set up and tune, although I did get a rolling road final tune done.
Although not a common setup in the P911 world, my thinking would start there.

 

 

Phill did Triumph TB and mega squirt to his 911 - the story is on here somewhere

Edited by PeterK
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Hi Lewis, great move, I will encourage you lots……. If it was my money I would probably buy a kit from Al Kosmal and discuss with him ITB options as he offers a couple.  He does a full kit which I thought was quite attractive and they are nowhere near as much as the partial kits from some UK suppliers such as Stuttgart Classica https://www.stuttgart-classica.co.uk/enginedrivetrain/throttle-body-kit

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I can't help you with any advice Lewis except to say that you should do it if only because old K-Jet is the work of Satan.

Also TBs are really cool because they have the same initials as me. :D

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Jevvy has some interesting thoughts on this very matter 👍

2 hours ago, Northy said:

However, I’m a dick and a glutton for punishment...

If that's the only qualifying criteria for getting EFI and ITB's then I'm definitely in trouble ! :lol:

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19 minutes ago, tea boy said:

Also TBs are really cool because they have the same initials as me. :D

And Tuberculosis but let's not mention that in case any badgers are listening ;)

Edited by GaryH
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As Peter says, been there done that and thoroughly enjoyed the project. Now Lee has had it properly tuned I think it’s added 20 odd horsepower which is not to be sniffed at.

Would I do anything differently? No I don’t think so.

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i went with the jenveys and a dta ecu,both british companies who you can ring up with any issues. i found them both very helpful.

also depends on what look and how technical you want to be,for me some are to blingy,i wanted a old school look,2 coils and distrubutor,cotton wrapped ptfe hoses black fittings etc 

ignition side of things needs to be done to get the benefits 

i fitted the parts but have a guy mapping it for me 

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2 hours ago, petesc30 said:

i went with the jenveys and a dta ecu,both british companies who you can ring up with any issues. i found them both very helpful.

also depends on what look and how technical you want to be,for me some are to blingy,i wanted a old school look,2 coils and distrubutor,cotton wrapped ptfe hoses black fittings etc 

ignition side of things needs to be done to get the benefits 

i fitted the parts but have a guy mapping it for me 

What did you go for Pete, The heritage ones that look like carbs or the normal ones? The throttle linkage looks much simpler on the heritage ones.  Can you share some more details & photos please? 

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I waited about a year for the heritage ones ,then brought the normal ones as I thought they were not going to happen,they do look good but have you priced them up?

they come flow balanced up as a set of three ,but you have to do side to side on the car when its running.

the single bodies have a straight shot at the inlet ports whereas the triple bodies don’t.

PMO in america have a new owner now and have started making them again which is another period looking option ,but for me buying in america has been nothing but trouble ,paying and waiting and when things turn up ,costing a lot more.

my engine builder said they are the best for the money and power so i went with what he said 

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i could have written Northys opening statement myself...are we all afflicted in this IB way? :) Serial Tinkerers...

They do look lovely kit and i would never tire of that engine bay look in Petes photo above, plus the engaging sound they make :wub:  Will watch this thread with interest.

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I feel the same as Jonny on this and want some reassurance that the manufacturer will be around for a while and that others have trodden this path before.  I don’t really want the car off the road for months whilst I work stuff out, this makes me think Jenvey is the way forwards. They’ve been around for a while and are well established. 

Assuming I’m fairly settled on the ITBs being Jenvey, it’s then a question of ECU/Spark. I feel like Motec is probably overkill (and over budget) and a simple Megasquirt type set up might be enough or Jenvey recommended Emerald and DTA.  


@petesc30your setup looks mega. Can you talk me through the spark side? You have a twin plug dizzy and coils, so is the ECU just controlling fuel? 

 


 

Is it Redtek that built your engine? 

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the ecu is mapped for the sparks,there is a porsche sensor on the back of the flywheel for timing and a sequential sensor in the back of one camshaft.the distributor i think is empty apart from a twin prong rotor arm ,not looked in there yet,think its a v12 jaguar item.the coils needed a bosch igniter module to work.

i got the wiring wrong when i put the engine in on this and it got changed back at nicks .car came back starting up but not mapped as i was getting this done locally.

the local guy has put on 2 innovate o2 controllers to watch the mixture one on each header,this should be a good setup.i think the new dta can do this but mine is a s80 the older version .

when i get my car back i will be looking at what has been installed.

i powered my coils from the ecu but that has been changed to ecu power to relay and battery power through relay to the coils.

things like this are what makes abetter setup but it’s difficult to find out.your welcome to come and see.

i will be doing a wiring diagram for reference when it’s done 

phil price at connaught is doing the final setup and dyno stuff .

yes a redtek engine 

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I’m planning on an ITB conversion on the 3.0 SC engine in my 914. It’s running a bit of a bastardised CIS from a 2.7 so a WUR with no vacuum compensation and the cold start injector was removed in order to fit the fuel distributor under the engine lid.

I’ve bought a set of Jenvey ITBs at mate’s rates through friends that run a company that buy lots of Jenvey kit for 4 cylinder cars. I felt the Jenveys were more than good enough. The AT Power ITBs in the IB are lovely and all that but overkill and far too spendy for this conversion IMHO. Still not settled on the ECU though. Motec for commonality with my IB but MegaSquirt for being open and having a huge user base in the 911 world. And MS supports TunerStudio and Bluetooth interfaces and the like - seems much more accessible and tweakable.

 

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I have more of a DIY Triumph setup put together by the previous owner. @jevvy and I have made some adjustments and and had a fair bit of mapping done.

The setup above looks absolutely awesome and well finished.

Whichever way you go, I think its the best mod I have ever had on a 911 and would do it to every one I own now.

The noise, torque, power are all so addictive.

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On 02/12/2022 at 21:41, Phill said:

As Peter says, been there done that and thoroughly enjoyed the project. Now Lee has had it properly tuned I think it’s added 20 odd horsepower which is not to be sniffed at.

Would I do anything differently? No I don’t think so.

I missed this, agreed its the single thing I would do to every 911 project.

Shaun has worked wonders on the mapping and every time Jevvy is in the car he says he can't believe how quick it is. I know you did a great job of getting the weight down, finished off by my efforts and we are at 1015kg with a quarter of a tank of fuel.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I'm current getting a quote to have the ATPower set up (similar to what Chris Byrnes had on his RSR recreation) on mine.

He used the same ECU and ignition set up (Specialist Components) that I currently run, so initial discussions with all parties say it should be a relatively simple installation and SC have a base running map so it will be drivable until a live dyno tune is done.

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Edited by Beaky
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11 hours ago, Northy said:

Looks mega.  Got to be 15k? The base ITBs are about 9+ VAT aren’t they? 

That's for the full kit, ITB's, ECU, Harness, Loom, etc. As I just need the ITB's and a few bits more like £5k before fittings and Dyno

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To get the best out of ITBs you’ll need a fair bit of “on the road” tuning done to get the fuelling right at low and mid throttle at all sort of engine speeds. Ideal is one person driving and a 2nd person on the laptop looking at the fuelling under different engine speeds and loads. This can be time consuming but rewarding. Otherwise just go with Webers. 🤣

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  • 2 weeks later...

I should be getting my Individual Throttle Bodies estimates soon, one for Jenvey's and one for AT Powers (ATP) set up.

Both made in the UK so support is at hand, as has been stated before on here, the Jenveys are a known quantity and were originally used by Singer on their first patch of cars, so a pretty good recommendation.

ATP are relatively new to the party (2012), but are used and recommend by Neil Bainbridge and Reno RennSport (US)  - both of whom were heavily involved in the design of the ATPs.

ATPs being shaftless design mean more instance response and smaller bores to be used, but are more expensive.

I know a few IBer’s that have fitted the ATP’s with good results

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  • 2 weeks later...

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