rear inner hard brake lines on a G50 car

[sopor]

One of my rear calipers has been sticking so took them off to rebuild them. On both sides the hard line was corroded onto the fitting so turning the fitting twisted the hard line and they're now scrap.

I was able to remove the other ends from the rubber hoses without issue. But the rubber hoses look like they might well be original so thought I would replace them. I then discovered that the hard line fittings that go onto the inboard ends of the rubber hoses are badly corroded and rounded off. Sigh. So if I want to replace the rubber hoses I need to repalce the inner hard lines as well. The right one looks easy peasy but the left one looks to be a bit of a so and so with how it runs over the gearbox. And they're NLA from Porsche.

Can the left line be replaced with the gearbox in situ? Is it helpful to lower the front of the gearbox like when doing a starter replacement?

And any reason why I can't run stainless braided hoses from the union all the way to the calipers?

[sopor]

Some photos of the badly corroded fittings...

[Chris_911]

https://type911shop.co.uk/epages/de867ca1-377e-432e-84fd-bdccf2206766.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/de867ca1-377e-432e-84fd-bdccf2206766/Products/2085

??

[sopor]

Those are the outer hard lines that go from the hoses to the calipers.

[Phill]

I can't remember how the brake pipe runs over the gearbox but is is possible to make the piece and thread it over (with or without partial drop)? That is certainly some rusty brakery. Lucky Teaboy isn't here or he'd had you cutting those mounts off and everything 

[sopor]

Possibly…

 

Here’s a photo of the routing from an old IB thread. I’m not keen on removing the old inner hard lines and rubber hoses until I have a solution I know I can successfully install. I don’t want to back myself into a corner and have to drop the engine. At least not in the summer!

 

[TargaWayne]

I recognise that picture. It's the before, sorry I haven't got the picture of the after with new brake lines installed.

I bought a length of made up hardline with nuts attached from a guy on ebay. It was good work and fairly cheap. Then I uses a set of pipe benders to replicate the original pipe.

If you can disconnect the shifter link it might be easier. You need to hook it over and behind the fuel and clutch hydralic line on the left hand side. 

There is just one metal tab on the left hand side to hold it in place.

[sopor]

@TargaWayne thanks for posting that photo in an old thread - v helpful to know what I’m up against.

I will look into what’s involved in running a new pipe and if confident I can measure it accurately I’ll order from the chap that @Lesworth posted about some time back. Otherwise I’ll need to make up my own and buy the flaring tool etc.

i have access to a lift with a jacking beam so might just drop the nose of the gearbox right from the start.

[angusb]

Believe this pipe is still available from OPC , Pelican has it listed for sale.

https://www.pelicanparts.com/More_Info/91135562707.htm?pn=911-355-627-07-OEM&SVSVSI=911M&DID=33354

My experience with eBay is the brake pipes material is of dire quality, also be cautious of cheap flaring tools, as they won`t be able to form the Metric flares with Porsche uses.

 

[sopor]

That looks like its for a 915 gearbox car...

I believe this is who Lesworth and others have used without issue https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/273830572478

If I make my own I will use https://www.carbuilder.com/uk/hand-held-brake-pipe-flaring-tool or the like with the DIN flare fitting.

 

[Phill]

6 hours ago, sopor said:

 

If I make my own I will use https://www.carbuilder.com/uk/hand-held-brake-pipe-flaring-tool or the like with the DIN flare fitting.

 

I have that tool (albeit an exact same one at half the price from Amazon) it works an absolute treat. Get yourself a little bender as well, so much nicer than hand bending (I'll stop now before Matt jumps in with some innuendo  )

[PeterK]

If you decide to make your own Felix, I have a flare tool & a hand-held pipe bender that you can borrow

Peter

[Type911]

11 hours ago, Phill said:

I have that tool (albeit an exact same one at half the price from Amazon) it works an absolute treat. Get yourself a little bender as well, so much nicer than hand bending (I'll stop now before Matt jumps in with some innuendo  )

Bugga....................too late?

[angusb]

Sorry guys ... am not getting this train of though ? Original Porsche brake pipe lasted approx. 40 years. The eBay  jobbies mentioned   pipes  have  quite optimistic durability  at most 3 years .   The work replacing, lowering g/box  should outweigh a quick fix.

  The  problem with with the hand  held tools, (above)  is whilst they can press flares in soft copper material- this will get a car through a MOT- they  do not have the leverage to press a flare accurately in the materiel even  similar vaguely  to the original Porsche pipes.. The appropriate tool to do this would be a  Sykes -Pickavant , flare tool, bench mounted turret design , combined with a proper brake bender,

   To hand bend a  a  poor quality brake pipe is easy ........... no innuendo  inferred.:)

     

 

 

 

   

[Phill]

My handheld flare tool, as above, does kunifer easily. The little hand held bender bends the kunifer very nicely too.

Lowering the gearbox/engine is not a big deal really.

Redid the entire front end of the BMW with those tools.......

What's not to like? Easy peasy for a man of Felix's capabilities.

Edited August 4, 2024 by Phill

[PeterK]

4 hours ago, angusb said:

Sorry guys ... am not getting this train of though ? Original Porsche brake pipe lasted approx. 40 years. The eBay  jobbies mentioned   pipes  have  quite optimistic durability  at most 3 years .   The work replacing, lowering g/box  should outweigh a quick fix.

  The  problem with with the hand  held tools, (above)  is whilst they can press flares in soft copper material- this will get a car through a MOT- they  do not have the leverage to press a flare accurately in the materiel even  similar vaguely  to the original Porsche pipes.. The appropriate tool to do this would be a  Sykes -Pickavant , flare tool, bench mounted turret design , combined with a proper brake bender,

   To hand bend a  a  poor quality brake pipe is easy ........... no innuendo  inferred.:)

     

 

 

 

   

The turret type of flare tool is what I have/ use

[sopor]

7 hours ago, angusb said:

Sorry guys ... am not getting this train of though ? Original Porsche brake pipe lasted approx. 40 years. The eBay  jobbies mentioned   pipes  have  quite optimistic durability  at most 3 years .   The work replacing, lowering g/box  should outweigh a quick fix.

  The  problem with with the hand  held tools, (above)  is whilst they can press flares in soft copper material- this will get a car through a MOT- they  do not have the leverage to press a flare accurately in the materiel even  similar vaguely  to the original Porsche pipes.. The appropriate tool to do this would be a  Sykes -Pickavant , flare tool, bench mounted turret design , combined with a proper brake bender,

   To hand bend a  a  poor quality brake pipe is easy ........... no innuendo  inferred.:)

I think pure copper pipe is best avoided - it doesn’t have a good reputation for use in brake lines; it work hardens at the flare and can break without warning down the road. Then there’s cheap steel pipe that looks like it has a coppery tinge to it but will quickly start to rust. But the 10% nickel/90% copper (trade name Cunifer) is supposed to be just fine?

[Strictly]

I agree use cunifer or steel. Copper bends MUCH easier,  but for reasons above avoid. Incidentally banned in Australia for brake pipes I believe.

If you make your own flare, you need a tool that does single DIN flares (4.76mm, 3/16 pipe), with corresponding DIN nuts. I used to sell make your own kits back in the day. 

I've attached a picture, the DIN flare is the middle one. Notice that the nuts are different for SAE or DIN

 

 

 

Edited August 10, 2024 by Strictly

[tea boy]

3 hours ago, Strictly said:

 

If you make your own flare, you need a tool that does single DIN flares (4.76mm, 3/16 pipe), with corresponding DIN nuts. 

I've attached a picture, the DIN flare is the middle one. Notice that the nuts are different for SAE or DIN

 

 

 

As SAE and DIN use the same double flare, that means that you can use either SAE or DIN for the single flare, as long as you use the correct nuts...

[Strictly]

4 minutes ago, tea boy said:

As SAE and DIN use the same double flare, that means that you can use either SAE or DIN for the single flare, as long as you use the correct nuts...

Indeed I'm sure that would work, I've not examined the flare profile, and of course the flares them selves do squash a bit..

All of that said, personally I use DIN flares with DIN nuts, so that I know for sure it is 100 percent as designed and the female union Is of the same exact corresponding flare profile.

 

 

[tea boy]

8 minutes ago, Strictly said:

I use DIN flares with DIN nuts

This is what I was saying, you can use DIN with DIN nuts or SAE with SAE nuts on the single flare male fitting and either will work with DIN or SAE female fittings.