'79 CIS TO EFI

[PeterK]

Well, it was supposed to happen a couple of weeks ago, but it didn't.  However, it did finally start today......

The poor, unsuspecting CIS System, sitting there waiting to go out to play

 

and for those that don't know what an SC engine bay looks like ......

complete with auxiliary heater blower

 

So, new plan includes replacing this

 

with some of this

and these (when they've been cleaned, had new injectors, etc)

 

 

 

Alex, the Garage b1tch (aka GFB on biker forums) came over, so we needed an initial TODO List (not a chance we would do much more than make a start on it today though)

 

So, where to start.  Well how about air filter off, and then the rubber boot that joins the throttle body to the inlets.

 

 Next let's remove the aux blower fan.  First by increasing access by ditching the dissie cap and leads

 

Then disconnect all the fuel lines (well maybe not all the first time around, as we discovered a little later)

 

 

 

Then, working our way around the engine, we disconnected all of the electrical connectors and pipework.  Alex busy at work, trying to remove the inlet manifold nuts

 

It is possible to remove the CIS without dropping the engine, although we did also have to remove the aux air pipework that runs behind & under the CIS stuff, loosen the bracket thingy that the throttle return spring connects to, and a bracket at the rear.

 

This is the bracket at the rear that I forgot about initially

I did remember the rear electrical connections for the 7th injector & the throttle body flap switch, although it needed the CIS system rotating slightly to get decent access.

 

I did have to remove the engine breather pipe completely, as I had routed it neatly out of the way during the resto, or maybe that should be had unfortunately woven it through a lot of pipework and cables under the CIS.  I also removed the aluminium pipework that goes to the Aux Air Valve, amongst other things and spend a while unweaving harness wires.

 

 

Nevermind, out it did come, to be replaced temporarily by some good, old, blue paper towels

 

Next was the CDI Box, leaving some loomage work to follow

 

Next we popped underneath, and whipped off the exhaust and manifolds, ready for lambda bungs.  I"ll be running a separate sensor for each bank

 

Oh, and in a minute of excitment, I also removed the passenger seat to gain access to mount the ECU (also for another day)

 

 

All in all, a successful day (which also included replacing a parking sensor on my X1 daily to fix the PDC, and collecting the bits to fix a neighbour's Audi Q5 - he thought that he had stuffed his gearbox, but when I peered under the hood, I suspected that the injector for #4 cylinder probably shouldn't be sticking out 100mm due to a failed retaining bolt, and maybe that is why it wouldn't run nicely.  Fitting his bits in the morning).

 

Watch this space .......

[Phill]

Woohoo, go Peter. So much de-ja-vu 

[PeterK]

8 hours ago, Phill said:

Woohoo, go Peter. So much de-ja-vu 

It’s all your fault Mr C

[PeterK]

So, a new day (although chuffin' cold) and back into the garage for some loomage.

 

When this lot (coffee cup for scale) accidentally falls off 

you're left with this

 

and then if you get crazy with the snips, you get this

and this

and this (no longer needed grounds will be removed from the alternator later)

and then if you're really not careful, this

and this

 

 

However, we will need a slack handful of relays and fuses in the new EFI world, so we should probably add them here

 

Plans are for the Classic Retofit fuse panel to be fed (as per standard) from Fuse 11 (in the front) with a switched 12V.

The standard HRW Relay will stay in its original home

The new fuse panel will be fed with a permanent 12V supply from the alternator (replacing the 2.5mm wire with a larger one, likely 6mm), which will feed the relays, the HRW relay and the rear wiper

The relay box will house relays for the ECU, coils, injectors and the 2 lambda sensors.

 

Did I mention that it was chuffin' cold ?  Well, I also hadn't had a cup of tea for ages (I did have cake and coffee before lunch at Newlands Cafe, being very TB here), so it was clearly now time to go and get warm and watered

 

Edited November 21 by PeterK

[sopor]

Watching this thread with interest. What’s the source for the fuse and relay panels?

[PeterK]

Both from 3WayComponents on fleabay (as were most of my connectors).  The ones I chose were

 

6 Way LED Fuse Box Block Holder with Warning Indicator Light & Bus Bar 12V 32V

Quality 4 Way Relay Box Holder for Standard 12V 24V 4 / 5 Pin Automotive Relays

Edited November 21 by PeterK

[Phill]

Well well, I was doing loomage in my freezing garage today as well 

3 way components are the best but I used their website.

My injectors and lambda are connected directly to the ECU, I don’t think there is a way of running them through a relay?

[PeterK]

I believe that they need a separate 12v supply as well as the ÉCU connections, so that will come via the relay.  I’m also running a second lambda via CANbus.

[Phill]

I’ve got my coils via relay but not the injectors.

[PeterK]

Another cold day in the garage, but fear not, the cold is going but the rain is coming.

 

Anyway, the plan for today was to place the ECU under the passenger seat and route it’s loom into the engine bay.  The expectation being that I could then plan what wires will go where.

 

Things started strongly and I managed to place the ECU on the floor, under the (temporarily removed) passenger seat (not fixed, just placed roughly in position - didn’t want to peak too soon)

 

As there is already a considerable amount of ‘stuff’ running through the tunnel, and with the inherent risk of additional loomage being abraded by either the throttle linkage of the gear shift linkage, the interweb wisdom suggests just routing the ECU Loom through the heelboard.  So I lifted the carpet and sound deadening

 

There are indentations around the small bracket with a circly sort of shape to the outside of it, which tally up with what I can see from underneath.  So, it looks like here will be the spot

 

 

So I drilled a pilot hole.

 

While I was ‘down there’, I had a little think about main chassis grounds and permanent live feeds.  There is a ground behind the fuel filter that I can use, or the main one by the gearbox

 

 

Rather than replacing the permanent live from the alternator (that originally ran to the 14 way connector), I could also run a feed directly from the starter

 

This latter feed could loop across the the loomage that runs above the heater flap valve, join with the earth from by the gearbox, across the tail of the gearbox and follow the main loomage up behind the other heater flap valve ….

 

… to come out in the rear corner of the engine bay

 

 

My plan was coming along nicely

 

 

 

until

 

 

 

The only 2.25” / 57mm hole saw I have is clearly for wood

 

 

I enjoyed lots of smoke but unfortunately little cutting action.  New hole saw quickly ordered from fleabay.

 

So, thwarted in my hole making, I unpacked the ECU loomage and had a thunk.  I’m now in the warm, working out what cables I can delete from the loom and whether I should bother adding a quick connector into the loom to allow engine removal without having to disconnect every sensor.

 

Oh, and while I was purveying the under side of the engine, I reckon that I could fit a Clewett cam sync adapter without having to remove the engine.  Anyone got a spare laying around, or am I into mega bucks for a kit form the USA, more for shipping and then VAT when it arrived (plus of course, the shippers’ “admin fee”).  

[Strictly]

Looking good, I will be following in your footsteps...but not for a good while as I've the entire body on my 79 to do first!

A quick tip, if you are not already planning it. My tip is to use the uninsulated wiring connectors with special dedicated crimper, then heat shrink over. You need the good quality brass crimps, the cheap ones are rubbish. It's been quite a while, but I think I bought my last batch from vehicle wiring products.

See pics

It's not actually a tip as such, it's how porsche did it. I literally can't stand those red, blue and yellow crimped electrical connections we all know. I hate the blue scotchlock things even more. I always take great pleasure in hacking out terrible wiring and putting it right.

 

 

[Strictly]

P.s great post and thanks for documenting, i will be following, literally! My tip is a just in case style tip, I couldn't quite see your final. connections. 

[PeterK]

I agree & never use pre-insulated terminals

With the sensor connectors, etc there are proprietary terminals, so I now have an even bigger collection of terminal pliers 😂

Edited November 24 by PeterK

[PeterK]

A day off yesterday for a surprise visit to the Big Smoke and the Maritime Museum & the  Cutty Sark, but given it was too windy and rainy today to take SWMBO for walkies, I was allowed in the garage (after chores).  Did I mention the big wind – well that didn’t stop me being sent up the ladder to try and sort a leaking window frame.  However, despite a wobble or two in the ladder department, I am still here, so the CIS to EFI saga can continue.

I did spend some pre-garage time looking at the pre-wired MaxxECU loom.  There are a lot of unnecessary (for an air-cooled  911) wires, and they can go.  I checked over the wiring diagram and identified those that can go bye-byes, but I will keep a pair of digital inputs, a pair of analogue inputs and a pair of general purpose outputs.  You never know what may be needed down the road.  I will de-pin the other not needed wires, but that brings me to my next impasse.  I have a veritable pile of de-pinning toolage, but of course, not one that properly fits the Molex CMC type connector, so a spot of inter-webbing, and that should be sorted within a few days.  I will also add a couple of spare 12v and ground wires into the loom.  Finally in this area, the MaxxECU supposes that the main 12V supply will be near to the ECU, and includes a nice connector to link at that point.  This 12V is then spliced to a feed to the lambda and injectors.  My feed for all of this is in the engine bay, so I just need a single 12V supply from the ECU relay.  Some minor ’adjustment’ will be made to the supplied loomage. 

So, what next.  Maybe it's time to start adding some new stuff, such as the crank pulley.  I checked that I was still at TDC, and that the dissie was indicating cylinder 1 before loosening the bottom pulley bolt, then slackening off the alternator pulley.

I removed the bottom pulley and fitted the new Clewett pulley 

I then re-fitted the fanbelt, but another one step back moment – the fanbelt won’t tighten.  I guess the Clewett pulley is smaller than my SC one.  I do know that early SCs (‘78 and some ‘79) needed a 725 belt, whereas the later ones only needed 710.  So, order for 2 710 belts placed and my old 725 goes into the box of ‘can I sell these’ items.  It will be joined by the spare (also genuine Porsche) from the froot.

Next it was out with the dissie and in with the bung to block off the resultant hole.  Then the Clewett crank sensor holder bolts in using the original dissie stud (sorry about the focus, or lack thereof)

Too early for tea, so what next.  Drilling.
The RHS fan blanking plate needs modifying to output air from the engine fan to the RHS heater, so with a hole saw that will actually cut sheet steel ….

And trial fitted the bend

I did intend  to cut a slightly smaller diameter hole, slit the edges and bend tabs around the new bend addition.  But I forgot, so we’ll just pretend that I always intended to cut an exact size hole and will weld the edges.

Then, while I had the electric drill (rather than just the battery one) out, the SSIs were attacked.  I had marked where I wanted the O2 / lambda sensors before I removed the exhaust – as vertical from above as possible but with room for the sensors and their removal if/when they fail.
 

Drill pilot hole

Holesaw 22mm hole

And trial fit bung

All just need welding up now, but it was time for tea, so that will have to wait.

[Strictly]

Looking good! Loving the detail.

How did you lock the crank pulley to undo and redo the pulley bolt? Where you able to get a torque wrench down there? Or was it just FT?

 

 

 

[PeterK]

It was torqued to spec when I rebuilt the engine.

To undo - car in reverse, handbrake on & squeeze the fanbelt.  Then a gentle tap on the end of a long spanner with my biggest rubber persuader.  Simples 

[PeterK]

Welding time.

The gap around the new heater take-off pipe was possibly a little large for my (lack of) TIG skills, so I MIG’ed it in

Then I cleaned the SSIs and O2 bungs with acetone

And TIG’ed them in

Not pretty, but my first time welding stainless, plus I am a real new-comer to TIG anyway.  Sufficiently glued in, although I did overheat the first bung, resulting in a pile of 5h1te on the inside threads, so an M18x1.5 tap set ordered for cleaning the threads out.

 

Then (as it’s taken me a couple of days to update this) the postperson came a-callin’.

First came the new fanbelts (thx Matthew at Type911), one as a spare and one fitted.

As it was a new bottom pulley and a new size of belt, I guessed at 3 shims behind the fan pulley.  Wrong. Added another, still wrong. 5 shims was about right, but I’ll check after the car has run a while.

Having the fanbelt fitted allowed me to torque the bottom pulley.  Or maybe not – can’t fit a torque wrench in there, so using my long spanner, I graunched the bolt up tight, then gave it a thump.  That’ll do nicely, Sir (I hope).

 

 

The metal cutting holesaw also arrived

And in a flash, the hole appeared in the heelboard

A quick splash of weld through primer (I have some in a bottle, so that was easiest for now) although I need to sand off the edges and do properly with epoxy before I finish.

 

While I was in painting mode, I primered the heating duct take-off

Then sprayed satin black

Which finally dried satin-ish in the cold weather, but at least it is protected

 

Also arriving, were my Molex CMC depinning tools

So you can decide that you have a shedload of surplus wires in your loom, make a scribble

Remove all of the cable ties from the connector, removed the cover plate, slide out the locking plate and insert your new tool

And end up with this lot on the floor

 

In the process, I did end up modifying two wires that looped to the power connector plug (that I no longer have on my loom), which I then shrink-wrapped (the red has insulating tape just to keep things in one place)

I know that this is not good enough, but it will do for now and I have ordered a pair (well 3, 1 as a spare in case of mess-ups) of new terminals and will ‘sort’ these two wires in due course.

 

Slow, but all progress none the less

Edited Wednesday at 12:13 by PeterK

[PeterK]

I dragged those 2 wires (see previous post) so that there will be enough slack to cut and recrimp

 

Then added masking tape instead of the cable ties so that I could feed the loom into the car without catching up on the cable ties.

 

 

I routed the loom over the torsion tube and up alongside the existing rear loomage

 

 

And out into the engine bay

 

 

Here I could roughly determine where the initial braiding would need to run to, and marked this with more masking tape, which I scribed to differentiate it from all the other masking tape. 

The length of loomage in the engine bay looked a little short, so I may reposition the ECU to the heelboard

 

 

 

Next onto some sensors.

For my CLT Sensor, rather than drill into the cylinder head or similar, I am replacing the thermo switch.  As others have determined, getting an M15x1.5 threaded CLT sensor with a sensible plug ain’t happening, so I Bought a sensible (M12x1.5) CLT and an adapter (M14– M12).  The hole in the adapter was about 0.5mm too narrow, so into the lathe and I drilled it out to 7.5mm

 

 

I also took a little off the length, although I needn’t have bothered, due to the threaded length of the CLT Sensor.

 

 

All fitted nicely and awaiting wires

 

 

 

I have a Bosch combined oil pressure and temperature sensor to feed the ECU, so bought an M10 t-piece to fit between the standard oil pressure sender and the block. 

 

 

 

I even had thought ahead and bought new crush washers.  My plan fell apart once I’d removed the existing sender – it’s a M14 thread !.  I can’t find an M14 t-piece with anything other than a 1/8NPT take-off, so one on order.  1/8NPT is very close to M10x1, but not close enough, so I’ve also got an adapter coming.

 

Looking for things to do, I shortened the heater flexible hose, ready to attach to the take off (modified blanking plate)

 

Although I won’t fit it up until I’ve sorted the oil pressure area, as I need access to the oil feeds to the cams and Carrera hydraulic tensioners.

 

 

I then mixed up some epoxy paint, sanded the paint around the loom hole in the heelboard, and slapped it on.  Hope it dries tonight, as I want to fit the ECU loom tomorrow.  Talking of which, here it is with braiding that will reach into the engine bay, plus the rubber grommet.

 

 

 

 

 

Another day.  I’m not convinced that the ECU loom will reach where I need it to go, and rather than doing a cack-hand job trying to make cables fit or extending cables, I have bitten the bullet and ordered a pair of quick-release connectors.  I can run new wires from the connectors to the sensors, etc, without the need to splice anywhere.   It will also make life simpler if/when the engine comes out.

 

Today the postie brought my M18 taps, so following a quick chase, the WBO2 bungs are nicely clear for the lambda sensors

 

 

While I wait for the various loomage parts, I moved on to more mechanical events.  First I temporarily fitted the ITBs.  I did need to drill out the manifold mounting holes slightly, but they now fit.

 

 

The sharp sighted will realise that this photo was taken after the next activity, but never mind.  Next up was the MAP manifold.  I’m taking a MAP signal to the ECU, even though my tuner has no plans to use it.  I will also feed the FPR (fuel pressure regulator).  So, drill 2 holes

 

 

I did plan to use Rivnuts, but as there is insufficient access to get the rivet gun in, I am making do with tech-screws.  likewise for the FPR

 

The FPR is not as on the bonk as it appears in the photo (‘onest guv).  I’ll replace the FPR outlet with an elbow version to make the pipework routing a little neater.

 

 

I was going to instal the oil catch tank, but it was late, cold and I needed a cup of tea.

Edited Friday at 22:58 by PeterK

[sopor]

Like others watching this thread with interest!

One observation: can no longer remember where but seem to recall advice saying not to hang a heavy-ish pressure sensor off of an adapter; with it being sort of cantilevered the sensor or the adapter can break from vibration. The suggestion is to use a short section of braided hose with suitable fittings and find an appropriate place to secure the sensor. Won’t work for a temp sensor though.

[PeterK]

Thx Felix