Light weight image change

[pedders]

I thought it was about time I confessed the reason for missing the Welsh run. I have been working on giving the car a new look, as well as ditching some serious weight. I'm a big fan of this site, and since Sladey's car seems to be tolerated, I thought I would come out of the closet...

 

Don't get me wrong, I love IB cars; they are a great mix of style, performance, and value, which is why I bought one in the first place. When I look at pictures of the Orange, Limey, and Perkles new motor, I wouldn't change a thing bodywork wise.

 

Having said that, whilst I bought my IB for the above mentioned reasons, I also bought it to tinker with. I had seen what Sladey had done to his '87, and couldn't help but admire it. Once I found my car, though, because of its relatively good original condition, I didn't want to do anything that couldn't be easily reversed. Also, whilst I am unashamed of my appreciation of the aesthetics of these cars, I like a quick motor, so if I can do anything to improve the performance of the car at the same time, then all the better!

 

So, I have begun a reversible back date of the car. All original panels have been retained and tucked away in case of a change of heart, or just to give the option of going back to IB style if I fancy it, and I reckon that when it's done, it would take no more than a morning to convert from pre 74 look (ish) to IB (with no welding - everything will be bolt on/ bolt off - I am even hatching a plan re. the reflector panel).

 

Whilst you will see from the pictures that things are very much in their early stages (the bumper is just resting on blocks, so don't worry about the alignment, as well as in need of work - see below), I've already spent a lot of time working with the fibreglass panels (bonnet - long style but with IB latch position, so no need to muck about with the slam panel, as well as the wing extension pieces) to get these to fit properly. The bumper (which I bought for a bargain price....) is going to require major surgery though, as it will need cutting and resetting if it is going to fit right, and I am cursed with being fussy, so there are many more hours ahead.

 

I will be leaving the paint to the professionals, for anyone worried I was about to botch an otherwise decent car.

 

Anyway, here are some pictures. Progress is likely to be slow, as I am doing an hour here and there, but I am thouroughly enjoying it. I am not enjoying having the car off the road, though, and seeing the Welsh run pictures makes me feel jealous...

 

 

Post jetwash under the wheel arches and front bumper... Most satsifying.

 

 

 

 

Those who aren't keen on the look of the conversion may at least take comfort in the serious weight savings that are being achieved - I never realised the bumpers and bonnet would be so heavy!

 

Ps Please can I remain a member of the IB forum?

[Tripe]

Ooh Chris, you big gaylord you.

[pedders]

Ooh Chris, you big gaylord you.

I know, I know......But I'm proud.

[MrPerkles]

bloody hell Pedro you are really going for it ! I like your car its mint should look good when its done

[Northy]

WOW I didn't see that one coming! I always admired your car and hope that it all works out well for you. Hats off for having the balls to do it to a very mint looking car, at the end of the day, it's your car and b*ll*cks to what everyone else thinks. I'm sure it's going to look ace when it's done, so keep the photos coming.

[johndglynn]

Love it Chris and kudos for getting stuck into one of the mintest cars on here. What are you going to do about mirrors? Hard to do reversible unless you buy some cheap doors.

[Tripe]

Cheap doors? I'm your man! Are you going for the chrome window frame look as well?

[Nige]

Good work fella, will be well interested to see the end result. I had a similar plan when I bought mine but then thought it was too good to start cutting things off and welding stuff back on. Not seen those early style front wing extensions before, guess they just bolt on if its all reversable.

 

Be good to see an a rough indication of the costs so far, shopping list style.

[Richard Bernau]

Where did the wing extensions come from? Series 900, TRE?

[pedders]

I really appreciate the comments all, thank you!

 

I've been giving the mirrors a lot of thought, and have come up with three options. My favourite would be to go for the Vitaloni Sebring Mach 1 mirror. If anybody saw the issue of GT Purely Porsche, where they featured the first 911 turbo show car, then those are the mirrors I mean. I am hoping these will cover the flag holes - but I'm just guessing from the pictures. If anybody knows, I'd really appreciate the info, as I'm about to take the plunge and buy.

 

Option 2 is go for Durants, and make up a little panel which will cover the original flag holes, and then fit the mirror over it. There would of course be an obvious join line, so this may look naff, especially with the wing extensions which may be a join line too far.

 

Option 3 is to weld up the holes and have the doors repainted. This is going against the bolt on bolt off ethos, though, which I really don't want to do. I'd welcome any suggestions, and have scoured the internet, but am not keen on cup mirrors on the long bonnet car. I could live with the Paul Stephens mirrors, but I recall reading that they were either silly money, or not available for sale separately. I probably should call and find out.

 

I am seriously tempted with the chrome window frame/surrounds, and the car could do with new front and rear screen seals anyway. I've also got the original black finish bubbling up on one of the quarter window trims, so this needs attention which gives an excuse to do something.

 

Again, this is going against the bolt on bolt off plan, but I quite like chrome on an IB, and it was original on the early IB's - there's a picture of a lovely metallic grey/silver IB in Peter Morgan's book (Original Porsche 911, the reg no was CTK 911) which has the chrome option, and I like that car a lot, so this may be on the cards.

 

Will keep totting up the costs for those interested, but so far it's looking pretty cost effective if you do the panel fit yourself (which I guess is always the issue with fibreglass bits).

 

With regard to the wing extensions, I got these from Series 900 in the US. Damon there is a really good bloke. He did not want to sell me the parts, because (as he told me on numerous occasions) they're not really a finished product and need work. I just kept pestering him, which I hope he has forgiven me for...

 

I'll do the mirrors and window surrounds last, so if the car looks in any way scruffier than it did before I messed with it, it will go back to original without much bother, and expect to see a glut of bits on ebay! Fingers crossed it won't come to that...

[Northy]

Chris, I think your best bet for a decent look would be to weld up the flag holes and put some durrants on or get 935 (RUF) mirrors like John has on his, they can look good on both IB and long hood cars. Kind of solves the bolt-on bolt-off problem.

 

I think you're going to have to take some semi-permanent action to get it looking right; there is nothing worse than it looking like a half arsed attempt at a backdate. Just my

[johndglynn]

I think the Sebrings would look the nuts whatever bumpers you have, so that is the way I would go. They are the mirrors I would put on mine if I was going to change - those or pukka black Talbots.

[SP72]

Couple of options from Dave at TREMotorsports.com

 

BMW mirror

 

Repro 74-75 mirror $80 each (as per Limey?) - these come chromed then sprayed black. Definitely requires flag holes to be filled.

[pedders]

I think the Sebrings would look the nuts whatever bumpers you have, so that is the way I would go. They are the mirrors I would put on mine if I was going to change - those or pukka black Talbots.

 

I've also seen them on a 356, and thought they looked pretty cool on that too - a mirror for every porsche occasion!

 

Couple of options from Dave at TREMotorsports.com

 

BMW mirror

 

Repro 74-75 mirror $80 each (as per Limey?) - these come chromed then sprayed black. Definitely requires flag holes to be filled.

Thanks for the suggestion!

[pedders]

A bit more progress...

 

As previously mentioned, the 'barain' bumper was not a good fit.

 

 

Not quite the quality of finish I had in mind. So it was surgery time. Out with the Dremel (the scalpel of power tools in my opinion).

 

 

At this point, it was too late to think about taking it back....So, next stage was to create Frankenstein's 911:

 

 

I tacked the end piece back in the right place with little tabs of fibreglass cut offs (from the wing extensions - always one for recycling, me!) and a hot glue gun which was strong enough to hold everything in to place (and fast acting), but not so strong as to damage the bumper when removing the tabs.

 

I then glassed it at the back using (as you might guess) resin and cloth. Following the application of filler and sandpaper, everything was back to where it should have been in the first place:

 

 

Much better.

 

I'll spray a bit of white primer on it just to make sure that doens't show any defects in the surface, but it's already been subject to the scrutiny of a 500w halogen lamp, that's unflattering with regard to blemishes elsewhere on the car that I had even noticed before (and wish I hadn't seen, now), and I will be asking the paint shop to make sure all is well in any case.

 

Sadly, the other side was just as bad, so I repeated the same process for that side too. That's the last cheap f/g panel I ever buy.

 

The brackets I made (and can be seen in the bumper cut photo, but here held in with just epoxy) have now been glassed in. These attach to the holes in the luggage compartment where the valance used to go. Next job is to sort the brackets on the sides, which will attach to the horse shoe shaped brackets under the wings.

[johndglynn]

Chris - you dark horse!

 

Great job buddy

[rainer]

I've also seen them on a 356, and thought they looked pretty cool on that too - a mirror for every porsche occasion!

 

 

Thanks for the suggestion!

Hi Chris,the Durants will cover the Flag holes without welding etc if you wanted to give them a try-pretty sure there are some pics of my SC with them in the Gruppe IB section.

[pedders]

Chris - you dark horse!

 

Great job buddy

Cheers John!

 

Hi Chris,the Durants will cover the Flag holes without welding etc if you wanted to give them a try-pretty sure there are some pics of my SC with them in the Gruppe IB section.

Hi Rainer, if this is the case, I will be very happy! Am off to search for pictures of your car - many thanks!

 

Edit - doh! Rainer, I feel like I know your car well, having read the article, and looked at many of the pictures of it on this board - was a bit slow in makig the connection.

Edited November 20, 2007 by pedders

[sladey]

Hi Chris - glad to hear you're coming over to the dark side!

 

Car is looking great.

 

On the window surrounds, you'll probably have to go to opening rear windows as I don't think it's easy/possible to get chrome/ally fixed rears. A more economic solution would be to sand off the black covering for the existing surrounds - note sure if you'd have to do anything to resultant finish though. If going to openers, be aware that the seal isn't great - I've got brand new seals and after washing the car I always have to open the rear windows and let the water come out. You also have to tap some holes for the hinges I think (although I believe they are built into the shells anyway)

 

On the mirrors - you do realise that generally they didn't have any mirror on the passenger side when they used durants - so for the passenger side it would be better to just weld it up (this would be compatible with the reversible idea as flags could be refitted easily - esp if you left the wiring still there. Don't forgets that Durants are completely and utterly useless for anything other than watching womens 4rses walking up the pavement on the other side of the road, also because of their size it has to be a small 4rse and moving slowly. Whilst I'll be the first to admit that does have it's advantages they aren't what you'd call a driving aid. I understand the 'truly original' ones do adjust a bit better, but I'd be wary of people trying to flog you an 'original' one for £120 that's actually a modern repro - AFAIK all the ones you buy from the suppliers are the repros.

 

I literally never use mine for driving (I've only got one on the drivers side) - my neck has become more flexible since the backdate.

 

I echo your sentiments on the loss of weight - you'll feel that in the handling

 

Keep the posts coming, good luck with it, and if you need any pics from mine of specific bits let me know.

 

Rear number plate lights - don't forget them

 

Cheers,

 

Mark

Edited November 21, 2007 by sladey

[Nick Moss]

On the window surrounds, you'll probably have to go to opening rear windows as I don't think it's easy/possible to get chrome/ally fixed rears.

You can either fit the opening quarterlights from an early car, but you will need to modify the B pillar as Marks suggests, and fit "rivnuts" at the rear to fix the latches. You can buy bright fixed window surrounds from Porsche or I can get the whole set of frames and trims stripped, polished and anodised for you.

 

The last backdate I did the customer specified cup mirrors, not to my taste and very expensive to buy, but they do fit staight on and give you the electric adjustment.

 

 

The one we are doing at the moment has bullet mirrors both side and opening rear quarterlights.

 

[topcarrera]

Nick -

 

I was looking at your website the other day and saw the pics of that dark blue backdate car; looks superb. I am normally a bit "precious" about all this backdating lark but I have to admit I saw that car and thought mmmmmmmmm ....

[MrPerkles]

Each to their own but whoever asked for cup mirrors on a backdated car needs to go to Specsavers

[pedders]

Hi Chris - glad to hear you're coming over to the dark side!

 

Car is looking great.

 

On the window surrounds, you'll probably have to go to opening rear windows as I don't think it's easy/possible to get chrome/ally fixed rears. A more economic solution would be to sand off the black covering for the existing surrounds - note sure if you'd have to do anything to resultant finish though. If going to openers, be aware that the seal isn't great - I've got brand new seals and after washing the car I always have to open the rear windows and let the water come out. You also have to tap some holes for the hinges I think (although I believe they are built into the shells anyway)

 

On the mirrors - you do realise that generally they didn't have any mirror on the passenger side when they used durants - so for the passenger side it would be better to just weld it up (this would be compatible with the reversible idea as flags could be refitted easily - esp if you left the wiring still there. Don't forgets that Durants are completely and utterly useless for anything other than watching womens 4rses walking up the pavement on the other side of the road, also because of their size it has to be a small 4rse and moving slowly. Whilst I'll be the first to admit that does have it's advantages they aren't what you'd call a driving aid. I understand the 'truly original' ones do adjust a bit better, but I'd be wary of people trying to flog you an 'original' one for £120 that's actually a modern repro - AFAIK all the ones you buy from the suppliers are the repros.

 

I literally never use mine for driving (I've only got one on the drivers side) - my neck has become more flexible since the backdate.

 

I echo your sentiments on the loss of weight - you'll feel that in the handling

 

Keep the posts coming, good luck with it, and if you need any pics from mine of specific bits let me know.

 

Rear number plate lights - don't forget them

 

Cheers,

 

Mark

 

Hi Mark - good to hear from you!

 

On the windows, many thanks for the advice -I think I'm going to go down the refurb route, so hopefully that will make things easier. The openers are very cool, though.

 

I had heard the complaints with regard to Durants (although it sounds like yours are being put to good use ), and thanks for the steer on orignal vs repro, as well as the offer re piccies - I may just take you up on this. I have scoured your backdate thread on the DDK for more time than I can remember, but doing that did prepare me for the rear number plate lights - the rectangular holes in the engine lid have already been cut!

 

More progress will (hopefully) follow soon.

 

Cheers.

 

Chris

 

You can either fit the opening quarterlights from an early car, but you will need to modify the B pillar as Marks suggests, and fit "rivnuts" at the rear to fix the latches. You can buy bright fixed window surrounds from Porsche or I can get the whole set of frames and trims stripped, polished and anodised for you.

 

The last backdate I did the customer specified cup mirrors, not to my taste and very expensive to buy, but they do fit staight on and give you the electric adjustment.

 

 

The one we are doing at the moment has bullet mirrors both side and opening rear quarterlights.

 

 

Your backdates look superb, Nick. I'm with Perkles on the mirrors though.

[tea boy]

Each to their own but whoever asked for cup mirrors on a backdated car needs to go to Specsavers

 

 

I'm with you all the way on that one, Andy.

[djf67]

Nick / Pedders / Sladey -

'scuse my potentially-ignorant question, but what does one do about rear foglight, which is required for MoT test on a car registered after 1980, IIRC, and a rear reflector which (I think) is also required?

Edited November 23, 2007 by djf67