targalout Posted January 7, 2008 Posted January 7, 2008 In 911&Porsche World Jan 08, Tognola are advertising a 3.2/SC Sport exhaust system, SSI + M&K exhaust for £1195 + VAT (page 99 if you've got a copy) Do people think this is particularly good value? I need to renew the system on my '89 3.2 and this seems like a fair option?
Nige Posted January 7, 2008 Posted January 7, 2008 (edited) is that fitted? I'd always try and do it cheaper, but then that's me. I pulled a few favours, did Ebay, had fun with manifold studs and ended up with a full stainless system for about £600, with also 15bhp improvment, proved on before and after dyno runs. checkout http://www.impactbumpers.com/forum/index.p...=2915&st=60 OK not as sexy as SSI but I've read varying reports whether SSIs have improvement over the standard 3.2 h/e's. Edited January 8, 2008 by Nige
B4UL R Posted January 7, 2008 Posted January 7, 2008 That dont sound bad attall... I got mine from pelican for $2100, but that included EVERY thing i needed, ie new oil pipes, studs gaskets, nuts washer braket ect...and postal.. I had a friend bring it over to the uk, so that also helped I didnt need anything else when itwas fitted. Does that offer include oil pipes ect?
targalout Posted January 8, 2008 Author Posted January 8, 2008 price is for the parts only but does include oil pipes and gaskets etc whats the verdict on DIY replacement - all the bolts and studs look pretty grim to be honest - looking at your thread Nige it looks like a fair bit of time and a lot of swearing would have been involved?
Nige Posted January 8, 2008 Posted January 8, 2008 A dremel is the way forward, we got abit cavalier about it and started drilling them out, which went pretty well for almost all of them, except one which went proper t*ts up, snapped drill bit, running of centre, that's why we dropped the engine to get it the right way around. What work spot on the second bank we did was to gas cut the old h/e off right up to the flanges you can then get good access to the nuts, dremel, drill or split them off. If you got the kit its half the battle, I certainly wouldn't have a go at doing it on axle stands with the tools I own. Hence I pulled in a few favours. So: Oxy acetylene equipment Angle Grinder with various cutting disks Dremel with plenty of cutting disks Determination, or a big wallet to pay someone else to do it. Once the old stuff is off, replacement is dead easy and very enjoyable after the initial graft.
pete917 Posted January 8, 2008 Posted January 8, 2008 Doesnt sounds too bad. HAve they evidence of the increase in power and changes to the curve? You can pay alot more for a decent stainles steel exhaust.
swift911 Posted January 8, 2008 Posted January 8, 2008 I thought about this offer too as it seems good value, but, I would like to know how noisy it would be. It would be a lot of work and money just to get turned away at track days.
johndglynn Posted January 8, 2008 Posted January 8, 2008 Do more research on this, SSIs are not so hot on 3.2s and that is a shitload of money, with more to come if the head studs go snap. I would probably spend it elsewhere or not at all (though I love the sound of SSIs).
Charles Jones Posted January 9, 2008 Posted January 9, 2008 I've heard contradictary opinions about the benefits of SSIs on 3.2s. Apparently they're not as good on 3.2s as they are on 3.0 litre cars due the diameter of the primaries being a tad small (1.5" as apposed to 1.75" for stock, or something), although the equal length pipes are supposed to give a benefit that may outweigh the disadvantage of the tighter primaries. I've heard that the result of this is that SSI's give slightly more low down torque than stock HE's, but don't give you anything on the top end. But I dunno - all this is hearsay, and it seems an aweful lot of money to spend on a dubious advantage, so maybe it's just best to buy a 1/1 M&K muffler and have done. No danger of broken head studs then. I've recently bought SSIs and an M&K incidentially, which I'm going to be fitting this winter. It was a bit of an impulse purchase because everyone bangs on about how good they sound, so I hope it's going to be worth it. I bought all my stuff straight from Pelican in the US, and I reckon if I added all the costs up for the SSIs, M&K, gaskets, muffler clamps, oil pipes, heater ducts and hoses, and then shipping, it must surely add up to more than 1200 quid. By the way, I removed my exhaust with the engine in the car a couple of years ago prior to dropping the engine for a top end rebuild (didn't have an engine stand, and so had to remove the exhaust before taking out the engine) and I only had a problem with one nut which I had to drill off, so the danger of rusted nuts and broken studs seems to vary between cars.
Nige Posted January 9, 2008 Posted January 9, 2008 what power gains to M&K reckon? any independent proof?
dugsud Posted January 9, 2008 Posted January 9, 2008 It is a lot of money and something I wanted to do but not at £1400+ fitting!! I've been looking for about a year and have managed to put together a pair of SSI's & an M&K in as good as new condition (a couple of months use) for a third of that price. Keep looking on ebay.com and Pelican, they do turn up and you'll find some at a good price if you are patient.
oliverjamesthomas Posted January 9, 2008 Posted January 9, 2008 .... and I'm just waiting for th boss to grab you by the balls for putting mucky exhaust parts on the nice kitchen floor!
johndglynn Posted January 9, 2008 Posted January 9, 2008 .... and I'm just waiting for th boss to grab you by the balls for putting mucky exhaust parts on the nice kitchen floor! and not picking up the beer bottle cap that missed the bin!!
dugsud Posted January 9, 2008 Posted January 9, 2008 Hell I'm in big trouble.......better have another beer....this time I'll try to hit the bin
Guest SEE YA Posted January 9, 2008 Posted January 9, 2008 I am waiting on a system being done by turbothomas for my car exchangers and muffler in stainless steel. SEE YA
Kroggers Posted January 10, 2008 Posted January 10, 2008 (edited) I thought about this offer too as it seems good value, but, I would like to know how noisy it would be. It would be a lot of work and money just to get turned away at track days. The SSi + M&K 2in 1out set-up is track safe. The new M&K Gen4 muffler is not as loud as the Gen3. The two out muffler could be border line at some tracks in England. Tognola did a lot of testing before they agreed to offer the M&K mufflers, including dB reading for exactly this reason. I also believe there will be an article in a soon to come 911&PW issue on Tognola and the SSi + M&K set-up they offer. If you have questions regarding the set-up, I would ring Peter Tognola and ask him... Edited January 10, 2008 by Kroggers
dugsud Posted January 10, 2008 Posted January 10, 2008 Kroggers, can you tell from the picture above if my M&K is a Gen2 or Gen3?
Richard Bernau Posted January 10, 2008 Posted January 10, 2008 The more I think about this the more I am convinced that SSIs for 3.2s just do not make a lot of sense. I can't understand how the little pipe sticking up into the exhaust port can be anything other than a really poor idea from the point of view of flow. See this picture for example and comparison with a 993 HE where I have done a little grinding to match the exhaust port diameter. There is a gentleman in Belgium who has made some adapters to make SSIs work "properly". They are not for sale AFAIK, he just made them to solve what he thought was a crazy design. It is not easy to see but this little "turtle-neck" takes the 39mm port down to 35.5mm SSI primary. I like the equal length element but with cams that can be fitted to a common plenum intake engine, you get only minimal exhaust pulse tuning benefits at best so why have such a bulky HE? Compare - You really need S cams or similar to get benefit from an equal length system IMHO. However, if you like the sound, lighter weight, backdated heat and you have to replace your exhaust anyway then I get the attraction. Heck, I bought a set! RB
Kroggers Posted January 10, 2008 Posted January 10, 2008 Yes, I agree 993 HE's is the way to go, but it's more work to get them to fit nicely on 3.0 or 3.2 engine. And not a fun job if you are not 100% sure what you have to do and good with the tools... Kroggers, can you tell from the picture above if my M&K is a Gen2 or Gen3? dugsud, do you know how old the muffler is. I can not see from the picture what Gen muffler it is. Who did you get it from? If I know this then I might be able to find out for you... If you find that the volume is to much for track use, let me know and I can get you a cap for the one out pipe to tone it down when required. I also believe the Gen2 2out had some resonance in some rev ranges, again this can be tamed down a bit with the M&K baffles. get it installed, and we will sort it out for you
MrPerkles Posted January 10, 2008 Posted January 10, 2008 I must have a gen 1 because my twin outlet system is very very loud,so RB are you sticking with the SSIs ?
Kroggers Posted January 10, 2008 Posted January 10, 2008 I must have a gen 1 because my twin outlet system is very very loud,so RB are you sticking with the SSIs ? It's a safety device - stops idiots from steeping out in front of you
REX Posted January 10, 2008 Posted January 10, 2008 I don't think this represents bad value for money and would have gone this way if i had not found my 993 HEs, cheers Jev. So far my 993 HEs and M&K backbox have cost me £155 for the HEs, £200 for the M&K and £120ish for the oil lines. Time will tell what difference it will make to power/torque but i'll be chuffed if it all works out. I've got a jig now if anyone else wants to flip the flanges on the RH 993 HEs.
Kroggers Posted January 10, 2008 Posted January 10, 2008 I've got a jig now if anyone else wants to flip the flanges on the RH 993 HEs. That is good to know
Richard Bernau Posted January 10, 2008 Posted January 10, 2008 I must have a gen 1 because my twin outlet system is very very loud,so RB are you sticking with the SSIs ? No, I ditched them about a year ago and got flipped flange 993 HEs from Timmins in the US and a custom M&K rallye style 3 out. It is about 104.5db using the LHS outlet only and ungodly loud with the rear outlets uncapped - like well over 110db and not suitable for use without a helmet on. Sounds mighty though. At SRR, the dyno guy said it was almost as loud as an unmuffled TVR V8, or words to that effect. I have planned to modify the muffler for about 9 months now and should hopefully get around to it soon I have the in-the-pipe baffles from Kroggers to play around with and will reduce the rear facing pipe size down to 2.5 inches from the currently ludicrous 3+ inches. Hopefully I can get it down to uncapped 105-110db. I still think SSIs on sub 3.2 motors make great sense FTAOD.
Kroggers Posted January 10, 2008 Posted January 10, 2008 I am having some extra fun at the moment trying to find a way to install a two in M&K onto my SC with catalytic converters (a requirement in the 2008 Swedish Porsche Club Racing rules ). Any one have pictures of how the cat configuration looks on a 993. I am wondering if i flip the flanges on the 993 HE's I can some how get it installed with the 993 cats and an M&K muffler.
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