Andrew911sc Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 Hi once again.. immback to square one., thought i would fire her up.. as info know and again. Just it's packed away.. and I'll not around much. Anyways as always normal it dontbfire up.. and normal I'm Just clean the fuel fuse and have another battery wired up.. always starts.. but this time I thought it was same problem, still think it's the same problem may be it's the fuel pump all along . Anyways checked fuse tapped fuel,pump. Lift flap in air box. As it's been so long one forgotten what the fuel pump sounds like but I'm sure I would hear it.. nothing. One thing I have noticed with all the cranking off the engine the fuel pump was red hot.. I mean hot as i couldn't hold it hot. So I'm thinking it's the fuel pump.. all along.. but thought i would ask here be4 going down that route. Sorry for asking this question again and and I will try read old posts regarding this problem.. I mean the engine is having the same starting problem as always engine not getting fuel and not firing.. so I'm thinking thing.. I mean the high fuel pump prob confirms that.. as I imagine it's not meant together hot right... normaly pump motor that gets that hot isn't working right.. thanks again for any advice .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew911sc Posted April 21, 2020 Author Share Posted April 21, 2020 I 've jumped fused 6 straight from positive fromnthe battery still no pump kicking in ..makes the noose off like a solenoid. Switching i touch the battery but no pump spinning. So I imagine it's the fuel pump.. maybe all along it was the fuel pump and fuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew911sc Posted April 21, 2020 Author Share Posted April 21, 2020 I jacked car up in did the - + and wired it up direct tombattery same noise click click .. I did see the little bracket had snapped off which hold it tomth e frame.. and was wondering if this needs to be earthed but I imagine that the pump is earth through the + and neg wires.. .. i will wait to hear if u guys say anything but I think I will lookmat ordering new one.. i suppose next question .. which domingomfor Bosch 99pounds or peirbugh 116 pounds or dansak at 56 pounds..not sure I want to fork out 380 for Porsche one but will do a shop around see whats the best price on Bosch I can find.. Will see if Porsche has as there normally really good on parts in the past... let me know if u can help any advice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johndglynn Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 Hi Andrew Have you bench tested the fuel pump? Diagnose before spending any money. The fuel pump is cooled by fuel as it runs through it. If the pickup is any way blocked or impeded and the pump is running then this will definitely generate heat. I think you need tank out and pump off and have a good look at the tank, check it is not rusting inside as they do like to rot. Bench test the pump in a test rig with fuel and check the delivery rate: see how long it takes to drain a measured five litres. If you put a new fuel pump into this scenario with no tank check then you will burn out the new pump. Check your tank and go from there. It is not a huge job to get the tank out and it could probably do with a rinse anyway. You would not believe the crap that forms in a fuel tank when cars are not used. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew911sc Posted April 21, 2020 Author Share Posted April 21, 2020 Yes sounds like a good idea.. but I don't think the pumps even running... I will take it off and see if ok can like say test it. As just now its seems dead just cluck each time I give it power.. but yes I suppose after 40 years.. I'm sure the tank needs looking at I had planned to drain it and look for ethinal free fuel.. but had filled my jeer cans with Dezel.. so no place to put fuel just now ok so in the other car that I had emptied for ethinal free fuel to go in.. had a funnel years ago with filter on it.. okay one step at a time.. pump off .. thanks for the advice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johndglynn Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 Definitely have pump off and tank out. Soak the pump in diesel and see if you can run it backwards, look at what comes out. It is not just a case of getting the pump off and checking it. You need to sort the tank or you'll be back to square one in no time. My 924 Turbo started and drove fine but later decided it did not like to run. This was the in-tank pump when I took it apart: the tank was full of rusty sludge and the pump was solid inside. Old fuel tanks fall to bits when cars are not used. The filters did nothing to stop this stuff hitting the front end - the shot of the warm up regulator shows what gets through and ends up in injectors. Forget the more involved what-ifs. Go simple first and start at the source- crap wedged in pump and tank disintegrating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew911sc Posted April 22, 2020 Author Share Posted April 22, 2020 Okay one step at a time fuel out pump off..at least I learning a bit about the fuel tank.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew911sc Posted April 22, 2020 Author Share Posted April 22, 2020 Instead off clamping it I plan to put something inside like bait brush handle and 're use the clip.. first step get fuel out and pump off ... I will keep u up dated might take little time easy job.. as you say.. just fuel transfer.. see what pipe work I got and so on.. thanks for the advice.. I'd be interested to see what the filter is like inside... the car is super low miles 62k but the time is the same... and it's the time that s caused the problem. Anyways I will,figure it out thanks again ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phill Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 This will be interesting. Probably a problem for all of us sooner or later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johndglynn Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 Keep it simple - bin anything cheap that has been sitting. 21 minutes ago, Andrew911sc said: Instead off clamping it I plan to put something inside like bait brush handle and 're use the clip.. first step get fuel out and pump off ... I will keep u up dated might take little time easy job.. as you say.. just fuel transfer.. see what pipe work I got and so on.. thanks for the advice.. I'd be interested to see what the filter is like inside... the car is super low miles 62k but the time is the same... and it's the time that s caused the problem. Anyways I will,figure it out thanks again ... Just bin the filter and fit a new one. Strip what will come apart and soak it in fuel - pref diesel and rinse in unleaded. Tank out, do not leave it in the car. Easy to rinse it when it is out and you can see what the seams look like. If the plan is to keep the car then do it once & do it right. Once you have sorted the tank and pump, consider swapping the fuse panel for one of Jonny's as the connection in the riveting between wire blocks and fuse springs deteriorates over time and causes increased resistance in the fuel pump wiring and all other circuits. Also (important) remember that the ignition switch behind the lock is prone to deformation due to heat build up as it ages and this leads to failure with a non-start condition. This is not your issue now as the pump is getting hot but it will happen eventually. Been there, done all of that ... 👍🏻 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nige Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 Swapping the terminals over so the pump runs in reverse for a second or two on the pump can often free a jammed pump. Obviously you still need to sort the cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GimmeShelter Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 Last year, a mechanic friend and I had a little competition to see who could find the fuel pump at the lowest possible price. It's a Bosch item, so we searched using the Bosch part number. I haven't got the details to hand, but very roughly, the same item when listed for a 930 turbo was, I dunno, something like £200-odd; for a 3.0 SC was £100-odd; and I triumphantly bought one (same part number) listed for a Golf GTI for about £70-odd. He won, though, as he found it for a different model of Golf, listed at about £56 or some such. Sorry I haven't got the details to hand, but someone here must have the Bosch part number! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew911sc Posted April 22, 2020 Author Share Posted April 22, 2020 Yes I have a whole list the Bosch pumps, was going ask about which one as the price goes from eBay 60 somethingnpounds to 911design at 99 pounds .. all look the same but flow rate I imagine very different will the get part number off 911design or some other site.. Anyways I was little concerned about dropping the fuel as if I has a fire there was no way I wouldn't all the stuff out off the way and save the car.. Anyways did it fine. Okay the stuff in the funnel I would say is from the watering can. The pump looks clean at the pump end off as u can look in... I wil try get the filter out off the tank on the bottom be4 thinking if it's worth takingbtank out.. have wired pump up dead not spinning at all. So will try switching the +- spin it back see if I can get it working and will figure out later options off Bosch pumps... Letsbsee if I can get filter out now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew911sc Posted April 22, 2020 Author Share Posted April 22, 2020 Pictures easy to figure out.. but if not.. what I used to get the filter out worked well with 2 foot scarf pole didn't think it would come off..so there is stuff in the tank not loads as put finger up.. Will decide what to do .. might drop a load off fuel down catch under neither and see what comes out.. but I suppose at this stage it's worth just doing right.. just need to find the weather seal. But some cheap option.. Anyways I suppose I glad it's done now and not when I was about to take it for a drive ,, in two years time ... yep I know need to drive it.. but at least I'm keeping on top and turning it over ..... one day I will get on the road with it... Ok tried spinning pump back wards say nothing both ways .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Comerford Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 If you’re leaving the tank in the car it might be worth popping the sender out of the top so that you can have a good look inside and see if there is much internal corrosion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johndglynn Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 44 minutes ago, Andrew911sc said: Ok tried spinning pump back wards say nothing both ways .. Cool -Some of my old BMW bike pumps come back to life with a flick back and forth but yours may be past that. I flicked my 924 in-tank pump back and forth but it wasn't having it either. At some stage the time spent messing with the pump will outweigh the cost of a new one so you may as well chase that down. They can be found cheaper, as mentioned. Anyway, great to see that you are well into this! Excellent! Rinsing that tank out completely and getting a decent pump on it will make a lovely job of it 👍🏻 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew911sc Posted April 22, 2020 Author Share Posted April 22, 2020 I'm sacked the pump off from the go be4 I had even started the job last night... not going tomtrynsave a 100 pounds on something that could really screw me over down the line... imagine it not starting when I might be on a ferry. But it's time now to take tank out.. as it's and easy job. And lets see what I get out off it... Will start thebtrackmdown off the pump later to night.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johndglynn Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 Great job Andrew. The pumps are pretty robust and generally last a lot longer than 62k miles. Definitely worth giving it a chance with a few days soaked in diesel and a few back and forth sessions. The old stuff tends to last much longer than the bits now made in China/Brazil etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GimmeShelter Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 I've found the fuel pump box; the Bosch part number is in fact 0580 464 126. You can also see the number above, which I think was from Euro Car Parts, and that it was listed for a Mk1 Golf: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew911sc Posted April 22, 2020 Author Share Posted April 22, 2020 Okay tank out started to clean weather strip off and got carried away.. thought might as well clean the black stuff off as no paints going to stick to that... and wired brushed up the rusty bits and a lick off that rust eating stuff . I bet i will do more than I imagine .. what the Gray rubbery stuff called and dose any one know if there a paint code for the right Gray.. I suppose I will under coat it with two pack primer.. but not sure u can stick single coat paints on two pack. But sure that stuff will stick.. have some each primer 1k and some 1k primer on top.. what Sunday best was I'm not some 2k primer also. Might just brush it on .. as the gray stuff will cover any thing and it's not as if anyone's going to see it.. .Will research best way off cleaning tank out as gotten a lot out all ready as in San see in the grass.. some picture .. painting is the fun bit... I imagine people just wash it out with water with OUT washing up liquid ... .? Anyways prob paint it first at least under coat and the wash out with water take out the fuel reader as I'm sure that won't like water ... and will let me see more in side Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew911sc Posted April 22, 2020 Author Share Posted April 22, 2020 2 hours ago, johndglynn said: Great job Andrew. The pumps are pretty robust and generally last a lot longer than 62k miles. Definitely worth giving it a chance with a few days soaked in diesel and a few back and forth sessions. The old stuff tends to last much longer than the bits now made in China/Brazil etc... Had not thought about it.. but this is a Bosch one I've taken off not porsche part.. it looks quite new also.. so many be it's been replaced not long ago.. I know the last owner but he didn't drive the car.. more that 60miles and I have also spoken with the owner be for him and he also known the owner be4 him.. but I'm not going to ring him ask if he Had changed the pump.. but not sure if it's worth trying to save Bosch 60 pounds pump.. which I'll just getvyhe golf one above ... which has the same numbers as the one i just taken off.. next thing weather strip pump and the gray gunk and clean tank.. think thas anuff for today.. clean up now and think I willnhive down at least my legs as I'm covered in that gray stuff.. once you start u might as well do it right as I'm not taking it part to painting any time soon.. last thing in did a couple months ago was o let's put some air in the tyers. Cracked valve rubber had gone so at some point i will change the valves on the other 3 and maybe one day once I start using it .. New set off tyers..as let's not talk about that.. but i would like to know where is best to get ethanol free fuel... as was a headache once be4 when instated to look and ring petrol stations up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johndglynn Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 Normal unleaded is about 5% so should be fine, I wouldn't worry about the standard stuff. Just don't leave it in there for a year. Pay attention to the seams of the tank as that is where they eventually fail when the underside is in good order. Any damp spots mean the tank is on the way out. You can have the tanks stripped and recoated for not huge money versus cost of a new one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew911sc Posted April 22, 2020 Author Share Posted April 22, 2020 I can touch up the outside off this one, but its not the out side that keeps the car going. Looked inside and have sucked some rust out but that s a whole job off its won't. All most feeling like u need to put some clay pebbles in and it be shaked on the washing machine a few times... it's quite rusty your right... I suppose the filter is the thing a that save you.. and having a spare on long trips and the tools to sort it at hand is always worth it.. and a spare pump. That's in an ideal world... did see a tankmlast night where someone had put a stainless hatch in the top off it will look it out.. hatch bolted around wouldn't be such a back idea. Anyways one step at a time .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phill Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 Cracking on nicely there Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GimmeShelter Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 2 hours ago, Andrew911sc said: know if there a paint code for the right Gray I think it's Eisengrau (Ice Grey), RAL 7011. At least, that's what I painted my tank with! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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