engine blowing blue smoke

[kai]

Hi guys just got a 2.7 911s it`s been standing for a bit before and after the shipping so a good 2months+ ....not being used properly.

 

Today turn on engine again its fine when idles but when hit the revs blue smoke comes out.

 

It`s only been driven on to the trailer and driven from my mechanic garage to it`s storage and shipped on a container for many miles before

 

No loss of power or engine noise worry when driven to storage place..apart from blue smoke when engine get warm up!.. under acceleration

 

The car this tuesday will be road legal... so should I give it a good drive to see what actually happens?

 

My mechanic did text said it could have possible mechanical issues.

 

So been reading up.

 

Rings/pistons?

 

Valves/gaskets?

 

Oil needs to be changed?

 

I just brought a oil tank cos that was seeping could that have anything to do with it?

 

thanks

 

kai

[TimNiceBut]

Due to the configuration of the engine, you might have oil leaking past the pistons while the car was standing. I'd be tempted to put fresh oil in it and drive it to see if (a) the oil that got into the combustion chambers burns off and (b) to see if it uses oil. That said, I would expect that oil in the combustion chambers would produce at least a little smoke even on tickover.

 

Other than that, IME smoke on acceleration would point towards ring/piston issues whereas smoke on deceleration would suggest valve guides/other top end issues (aka the infamous BMW blue). A quick compression and leak down test should show you if you've got any issues in the piston seal department - it might be that a ring is gummed up slightly (again due to the car standing around for a while) and isn't sealing properly.

[Nige]

As Tim says, I get some fresh oil in it and a few proper runs and see what happens before much else.

[kai]

Just want check how blue the smoke you say it should be?

 

cos I would say it was a light grey cloud like the weather over london today

 

I did notice on the tail pipe some guk when it was standing for many months..

 

When idle very little smoke

 

Would the amount of oil make a difference?....need to check the dip stick on tuesday

 

What`s the best way of checking?

 

What would be the best oil for UK usage?

 

thanks for the advice so far

 

kai

[mark bevan]

Hi

 

Is it usefull on these engines to use REDEX petrol treatment?

 

Regards,

 

Mark.

[kai]

Hi mark when the oil is changed..do you add the redex at the same time for a mix?

 

How much do you use?

 

And how does it work the difference?

 

I would say my 911 needs a very long wrong..but I wouldn`t how long

 

regards Kai

 

Hi

 

Is it usefull on these engines to use REDEX petrol treatment?

 

Regards,

 

Mark.

[Bertroex]

After standing so long, the best treatment is new oil (choose a semi-synth 15w40 not a thin 10w40 synthetic and filters, check timing, co and set valves and go for a drive to visit a remote aunt or a favourite motoring circuit or something. 70 miles as a minimum, because the oil will burn off, the engine/gearbox and all will get properly warmed up, all the moist in the exhaust and heat exchangers will disappear and near the 50 mile mark -remember those words- you will suddenly feel that your car is ready to play and you can start exploring how a 911 comes on song above 5500 rpm to near the redline.

 

I would not use red ex just yet- wait and see and get that engine nicely warm first- plenty of other things that can go wrong anyway.

 

You did bring it to a reputable mechanic like Chris Turner in London?

 

Best regards,

 

 

Bert

[kai]

Thanks for all the advice

 

Will check oil level take car for a spin to see how it handles etc do halfway or to brighton and back

 

Then take it to my mechanic for oil tank and oil change to semi-syhth 15w40 check timing and valves blah blah blah

 

Than burn baby burn!..hopefully not the engine! for a long run

 

Will let all know and put photos of new toy..oh actually you can see photos on the ddk site just follow Kai threads..metallic ice green 79 911s sunroof coupe

 

kai

 

After standing so long, the best treatment is new oil (choose a semi-synth 15w40 not a thin 10w40 synthetic and filters, check timing, co and set valves and go for a drive to visit a remote aunt or a favourite motoring circuit or something. 70 miles as a minimum, because the oil will burn off, the engine/gearbox and all will get properly warmed up, all the moist in the exhaust and heat exchangers will disappear and near the 50 mile mark -remember those words- you will suddenly feel that your car is ready to play and you can start exploring how a 911 comes on song above 5500 rpm to near the redline.

 

I would not use red ex just yet- wait and see and get that engine nicely warm first- plenty of other things that can go wrong anyway.

 

You did bring it to a reputable mechanic like Chris Turner in London?

 

Best regards,

 

 

Bert

[johndglynn]

Unclip the air filter cover, pull the air filter off and see if there is oil in the airbox. Could just be breathing heavy.

 

Italian tune-ups are not the way to sort oil smoke probs, so don't go thrashing it just yet.

[Bertroex]

Kai,

 

If you can afford it, bring it round to a proper 911 mechanic and not tower porsche for example.

 

A swoop on DDK found a gazillion pictures so here is a selection!

 

 

 

Best regards,

 

Bert

[kai]

Thanks for the swoop pics!

 

I`ve got a vw split screen camper which my mechanic looks after...cos he`s a vdub and MG mechanic and ..but he`s had personal had 1 MG 1 911 72e and 2 SCs over the years and got a Carrera targa and Mustang at the moment and he knows his 911s plus work on other porsche owners...but will take all in account...thanks for the advice

 

Ohh did take her out this morning before work seems to not smoke as much..but could be the weather...not showing so much...the rpm did get a little stuck at 2000 for a moment!..but carmed down when in traffic

 

Have to keep you guys up dated

 

regards kai

Edited November 26, 2008 by kai

[kai]

Hi well I took her for a run today!....wth a hangover from my xmas party

 

Seems that you guys are right so far..

 

Got out of london on the A3 went pass Guildford on to Aldershot..A lot of rain on the way so difficult to see for signs of smoke from the water spray....but on they way back things started to clear up the weather and the engine warm and hot...so reaching wandsworth..the engine was running fine!

 

Got to say some pratt! in Surrey with his Ranger took offence of me going 50mph in a 50mph zone!...he give the tosser sign too..just cos he could do his 60+

 

I did notice on thing still have fumes in the car!...which I still got a headache sore throat from...did you think that`s still part running the engine oil?

 

Also when I got back let her rest for 30mins she smoke for a for about 4mins ..then fine again...is that ok?

 

Check oil when running seems in the 2/3 of the two lines full

 

The temp was at 180 to 210 pressure 20-30 cruising at 70-90mph

 

4000 -6000rpm no smoke now when engine is hot...so far

 

The gears ok prefer to go from 2nd to 1st better the 2nd N then !st...but it could be my crap skills getting us to things

 

So far I think everything ok...will in form more as I get to know it

 

kai

[Bertroex]

Kai,

 

Take time when shifting: count "one elephant two elephant" before shifting up or down and you won't beat the synchro's.

I NEVER put it in first whilst rolliong. Only when standing still. Your car will love you.

 

Finally: do not, EVER, blip the throttle before switching off. Let it idle for 30 odd seconds and switch off. I suspect that loads of blue smoke is produced because, by blipping the throttle, you fill the cylinder bores with oil which has to be burned off the moment you start up.

 

I'd say its too early to say regarding smoke production. Give it a few runs and see: I just did 394 miles in mine today.

 

Bert

[johndglynn]

Fumes in the car with a headache and sore throat? Make sure it's not carbon monoxide poisoning!

 

Changing gear faster than "one elephant, two elephant" and no first while rolling - neither are on my list of no-nos. You need mechanical sympathy but you gotta drive the thing too - everyone has their own way. I rarely use first when pulling away, but then I have a three litre.

 

No disrespect to your camper guy, but yours might benefit from someone who really knows what they are looking at giving it a quick once-over. Sounds like you have oil getting into the intake and exhaust while it is ticking over or sat about, which to me is not due to revving on switch off; 4 minutes oil smoke after half hour restart is too long for that IMO. Definitely do not rev it when you switch it off: it's not an F-16.

 

10w40 is not that thin - 0w40 is thin. 10w40 is good stuff, what most people I know are using. You really need to dip that car and not rely on the oil gauge. If it is burning oil then check it every drive until you get a handle on how much it is using. Dip when warm and with the motor running, aim for the two-thirds mark on the dip stick - no more.

 

Check that exhaust soon as you can if you don't want to die in it - leaky heat exchangers are no laughing matter.

[kai]

Thanks guys will take on your advice

 

regards Kai

[kai]

Hi.... fumes seems to be going .. warmed her up today..not sure if it was a good day to do it.

 

Smoked white smoke

I think I had water vapour coming out for 4mins..didn`t smell and left a little puddle of water on the road.

When idle the pressure builts up to 60, rev at 2000 but seems to get a little stuck had to blip it a few times to lower the revs.

I did notice at below 2000 no smoke or very little and above 2000 no smoke ..but on 2000 chuffing smoke... always well behaved once engine warmed up and oil expanded

 

Took about 6-8mins

 

My 911 is slightly on a slop on the rd would this effect where the oil is placed

 

we see what happens tomorrow morning

[Bertroex]

Kai,

 

Should your heat exchangers be rotten or leaky, I have a set off a 2.7 in very good condition in my basement. They don't need to cost the world in order to keep you on the road! Please please get that car checked over at a 911 specialist- its worth it.

 

Bert

[kai]

Thanks bert... will consider the heat exchangers offer if and when needed..started her up to day very well little white smoke then nothing after a very cold raining night too

 

Well try give a early morning run on thursday if weather good

 

...Ohh by amazement got the center dash panel which some one butchered for my 76 911s $50+shipping!...which I send cost and installing labour to shipping company

 

(will give thoughts on specialist but not till the new yr)

 

Kai

[mike grey]

A further thought. If you've been getting fumed and the car been standing for a few months it's likely oil which has leaked from the rocker covers (most 2.7 are leakey in that area) has dripped/run down inside the heat exchangers. When the heater valve is closed to get heat in the cabin (the red heater knob by your seat is pulled up), and the exchangers hot, the fumes will be blown up through the heating pipes into the cabin. Sore throat is the usual problem, but hopefully the exchangers are drying out now.

[kai]

Yeah seems about right..just getting the sunroof and electric windows working properly..again just a bit slow adding wd40 making it better also better when cabin is warm too....just the case of my 911 standing for a long time..it`s like it`s getting back to life!

 

Will give it a spin tomorrow morning

 

Got any pics of your sporto?

[mike grey]

Pictures of my sporto? - unfortunately I'm one of the elderly who're computer illiterate - never posted a pic before. Infact, although I've had the car since the 80's I've only photographed it once and that was for insurance valuation purposes. When the car is cleaned down next I'll see what I can do. Car is a black Targa with cream leather.

 

I changed the 2.7 engine to 3.0 eight or nine years ago. Originally the car came in from Germany with a low mileage but the engine had already had a top end rebuild. After a few years use I had signs of two head studs pulling so I did a full rebuild. Left me with a very clean, dry and nice motor.

 

On retirement I decided to upgrade to the 3.0 engine and a 915 box. No problem with the sporto box but given the choice of a 5-speed manual or 4-speed (some were 3-speed) sporto, most would opt for the manual. Regretfully shortage of space meant the original engine and box were sold.

 

The car is run just a couple of times a week now to keep everthing working well. Never a MoT failure. Often have thoughts of passing the car on, but it's still a pleasure to drive.

[declang]

I second that about oil leaks from the cam covers getting into the heat exchangers.

 

I had that problem. I took off the heat exchangers and when I stood them upright, I got about half a cup of oil out of the air channel !

 

Mine are SSI's and i think it gets in where the vertical cylinders are, for access to the nuts on the exhaust ports.

They seem to be a rivetted/pressed fit, and are not welded, so if oil is sitting on the flat surface, it will find its way into the air channel. When the exhaust gets hot enough you will get the oil smoke into the cabin.

Mine was so bad, I though I had a fire under the dash !

 

Good luck with it.

[johndglynn]

Pictures of my sporto? - unfortunately I'm one of the elderly who're computer illiterate - never posted a pic before. Infact, although I've had the car since the 80's I've only photographed it once and that was for insurance valuation purposes. When the car is cleaned down next I'll see what I can do. Car is a black Targa with cream leather.

Sounds lovely Mike. You can email me a pic if you like and I'll post it for you.

[mean in green]

To add to this, I've also just experienced the "oil getting into SSI causing blue smoke / wretched sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach" scenario...

 

Declang's observation that oil can get into SSIs certainly appears correct. Looking more closely I thought this leak possibly originated from two of the lower rocker cover retaining nuts / washers: the nearside ones towards the front of the car. I then wondered if the covers had warped again, although I'd sorted that last winter (nope: they are still true).

 

Had the covers off, cleaned everything up, new gaskets/washers/nuts (less than £20 delivered courtesy of Type911), refit covers plus some sealant around the offending rocker cover studs then cover nuts correctly torqued. Still a tiny weep from one of the nuts so not completely cured but does show that is where it was getting out. No more blue smoke anyway, and not enough of a leak to warrant a redo for now.

 

Not entirely happy with this as a solution either, I may take the covers off again to get them milled where the washers sit. Chris at GCR's view on this was: "You might have to have a few goes at it!.