Rust in Carrera 3.2

[Tebbs]

Well I bought my 87 3.2 Carrera about a month ago in the knowledge that it had a few rusty bits.

This was the worst bit at the back, but there was significant rust at the bottom of both A-pillars as well and a bit on each wheel arch.

 

I went to Tomorrow's Classics (which is a bit north of Bristol), Nick Pope there had a good dig around and found some bits I hadn't noticed! I am sure they weren't there when I bought the car, but they certainly are now.. 4 weeks outside maybe brought them out.

Quite a big bubble here, Nick said he wouldn't bother fixing this just yet, I'll see how much the rest of the work is going to come to and then decide I think.

The same wing has this too, which I did see when I bought the car:

I didn't see or feel the patch behind though, too much mud..

 

 

 

 

Passenger side A pillar base:

 

Passengers side B-pillar sill area, no real nastiness here:

I will clean in here a bit better, then dinitrol the hell out of it:

This will get treated, sealed and painted soon:

 

Driver's side A Pillar, much worse. Body shop wonders if repair panel available, otherwise will make himself:

 

 

 

Wing:

Nasty little repair patch behind:

 

 

 

dammit:

"Sorry, but when your post merges with your previous post, you will have used too many images in your combined posts"

[Tebbs]

B-Pillar Driver's side. Not nearly as bad as I thought when I bought it:

 

 

This felt a bit crunchy during inspection, but after a good rub and dig around it's pretty superficial, so I think I can brush it all out, convert the rust, then seal it up with some epoxy mastic and then dinitrol it again:

This wasn't there when I bought it! Nick reckons it will turn into a hole, but will see how much rectification is needed later..

 

 

So all in all, not too bad! I await Nick's quotation tomorrow with bated breath. I just want to get it sorted now!

[johndglynn]

Not too bad on the surface mate, but it starts underneath...

 

How many miles on it?

[Tebbs]

112k.. I've had a very good root around though, I don't see where else it could be hiding?

 

No top end rebuild.. I thought I had an under-load- miss-fire, but now I'm not so sure, maybe it's just what they sound like, or maybe the motor is toast. No smoke on start up or under load as far as I've seen though.

 

None of the ignition components had been changed since 1991 so I've put all new cap, rotor, leads (sexy magnecor kv85's) and plugs in her, but not really changed anything. It just doesn't seem to have any urgency at 3k, once she's flying above 4.5k then she sings around to the redline pretty sharp. I've bought a bent feeler gauge so will do the valves next. I tried without the right tool and it's a nightmare isn't it! Makes the beetle valve adjust seem like the easiest job in the world.

 

I can see my 9.5k purchase quickly shifting around to 15k total here.. I'm getting most of the visible body work done by a pro this time. I've done plenty in the past, but have no usable garage nearby so it's gonna get the expensive treatment there, all the underside is going to get a proper going over at Christmas in my parents garage though, fair few bits that I want to change under there or at least clean up and paint.

 

I have it stored in my crappy unpowered garage finally today, I have 10mm clearance at either end.. eek!

[johndglynn]

112k.. I've had a very good root around though, I don't see where else it could be hiding?

Under headlamps, front bumper mounts, tops of wings between wing and flitches, screen apertures, tops of inner wings in the back etc.

 

Those two front wings arch edges are weird, don't normally see that. You're not looking at £6Ks worth of work there IMO. You are doing the right thing by doing as much as poss yourself, keeping costs down by doing the grimy cleaning out/stripping stuff is a good idea.

 

I would probably pull the wings if repairing those A post bottoms - might as well see what else lurks. If nothing then phew, job done.

[MrPerkles]

dont just wax oil over the old underseal,make sure its not lifting and trapping moisture

[Tebbs]

I will have a further dig around in those areas then.. D'oh!

I don't think I'll take the wings off until Christmas, anything in that area I can fix myself so I ain't toooo worried!

 

Will make sure I wire brush off and scrape at all underseal to ascertain if it's lifting before dinitrol is applied.

 

Cheers!

[Tebbs]

As James May might say... "Oh *beep*!"

I had a load of body work done before Christmas which I will put pictures up for soon, that's all mostly OK. But I took the car off the road to do a complete suspension rebuild. So far so good... Hundreds of photos stuck on my camera as my laptop refuses to talk to it.

 

Anyway, last Sunday I started cleaning up a bit of innocuous rust on the passenger side. Turns out some previous owner has made a right bloody mess of a repair. End result is outer sill, door jamb, kidney bowl and that whole lot.

 

Where do I get a kidney for a late car? Dare I ask how much?

[Tripe]

Only place for a new kidney for a late 3.2 is Porsche AFAIK. Budget for about £160 for the part.

[Tebbs]

Bugger.

Looks like I'll be fabbing it up then.

[Aldo]

I hate hearing about things like this. I hope you get it sorted soon mate.

[Tebbs]

Wouldn't mind so much if I wasn't paying 120 quid a month to insure it!

I hate it when you find bodges that previous unscrupulous shops have done, makes me feel rather sick!

[Aldo]

If you are not already with them I would give Hagerty a call (Phil Dunne 08700 420 220) as that seems quite a lot and at least you may be able to save a few quid there. Once it is sorted at least you will know you have a solid car and these are the sort of cars that are keepers so you will get your moneys worth out of her and with no deprecation that you would have if you bought a new one.

[Tebbs]

The problem I have is I'm under 25 until April, so I don't think they will cover me yet. Hopefully next time they will

You're right about the car. I just can't wait to have it finished now! So much shiny suspension to fit to it which is the bit of car maintenance I enjoy. Bodywork... Not so much!

[tea boy]

Where do I get a kidney for a late car? Dare I ask how much?

 

As Jezza says, Porsche only and for plenty of cash.

You could get the 964 kidney and a 911 jack point tube and weld them together yourself, which is what the Porsche part is.

This would be about half the price.

 

[Tebbs]

Ahahaha!!!!!!!!!!! That's a far better idea! I don't need all of it anyway, just much easier to repair with the right shapes.

Do you know what part numbers they are or what to ask for?

 

Thanks very much gents

[tea boy]

They call them a gusset plate.

964 502 577 40 (left)

964 502 070 40 (right)

[Tebbs]

Brilliant cheers

[Tebbs]

Right, I managed to get some photos off the camera. Look away now if you are of a nervous disposition!

So this is what I started with. I knew it was repaired in the past, it was all covered up by the sill cover on inspection, but I had a good root around, and it was solid..

Further investigation showed a bit of corrosion which I reckoned I could treat and leave.

Skipping a few photos here as they are on my parents camera, anyway, wire brushing the outer sill led to a hole, so I started to chop it out.

The small hole I made showed what a pigs ear the previous repair was.

At this point I bought a new inner sill. Note the lead loading which had to be removed which joins the inner sill.

Oh dear. Cutting more out reveals mess behind. This 'repair' hasn't been welded at the top and there is a hole at the bottom I don't think should be there. Damn.

The white stuff on the left edge is a very thick load of seam sealant. I believe this is actually factory. Either way it is very thick and didn't help stop the rust at all.

Can anyone tell me what the circular hole in this panel is for?

So... that's knackered under there so more cutting done:

Oh dear... it's really not getting any better is it?! So far outer quarter panel 'repair patch' and outer sill 'repair patch' is hacked off.

So I decide the B-pillar is gonna have to come off, it is 99% OK, but I can't get in to work on the kidney with it in the way:

Well I started by drilling out the spot welds up to just below the lock panel from behind. I think now this was a bad plan, I should have just drilled them from the front on both edges. How does everyone cut the edge sections where a grinder wont fit?

I couldn't get the spot welded panel free so I sliced the panel off and folded it back:

It turned out the kidney bowl was still corroded through above this level. Therefore I chopped the b-pillar to above the lock.

As you can see this leaves not a lot left of the quarter panel. Do most people chop this off then weld it back on with a panel behind it and fill in? It's already getting quite badly distorted and I fear for my ability to keep the curve correct on reassembly.

You can see the rust stops being corrosion and becomes light rust, then clean galv steel above the kidney bowl so finally I can stop cutting!!!!!!!!!!

Final picture from a funny angle to confuse you all

 

Right then. I'm scared of this job now. Are porsche B-pillars from a dealer going to be significantly better quality than the standard dansk panels available?

Has anyone got any tips for me? What would the pros do?

My current plan of attack is finish chopping out the inner sill to solid, rust free steel then edge joggle the new panel to weld in. Cut the kidney to clean steel and again edge joggle to fit. Then remove all remaining edges of the old B-pillar and prep for fake mig spot welding in around the edges and edge joggled at the top to the old panel.

Finally, take a section of outer sill to make the bottom of the quarter panel. Do I need to redrill that big circular hole?

I am most worried about the quarter panel. Should I chop that to allow me to fit the complete kidney bowl and risk cocking up the rear quarter?

I am getting very tempted to sack it in at this stage, bolt the suspension back on, stick it on a truck and have it taken to a body shop. Anyone know of anywhere who would do a good job for little money in Birmingham where the car is currently at my parents?!

Edited January 31, 2010 by Tebbs

[MrPerkles]

Tebs its an easy fix buy some panels off Tripe and I can either show you or help you do it one weekend for a beer or two

sills

The G50s have that hole in the sill no idea why but I dont think it needs to go back

[Tebbs]

Your idea of an easy fix is obviously different from mine then! I'm somewhat in awe of your work on that thread of yours. It's much more complicated than any VW bug panels, there's so many layers!

Your offer is very kind and I will almost certainly take you up on it, thanks

[ajd]

Wow. The bravery to tackle this stuff on here is most impressive.

 

Does the kidney rust from the inside out? If so how does water get in? Or does it just sit in a damp mud compost and rot away from the exposed area in the rear arch?

[strosek34]

This is the sort of thread where I'm glad I can't see pictures on my work internet, good luck Tebbs and well done for offering help Andy.

[Nige]

Once you get stuck in its pretty easy stuff, it always looks like 'Ohhh sh*t what have I done' but put the time in and spend it a bit of cash on the tools, parts and paints and a good result is achievable. Its looks exactly the same as mine, though minus the prior repair.

 

http://www.impactbumpers.com/forum/index.p...11778&st=20

 

 

In my mind what happens it the sealant that the factory puts on breaks down and just absorbs water. When I was hacking away the underseal on mine it was wet and squiddgy even after being in a dry garage for a few weeks.

Edited February 1, 2010 by Nige

[Tebbs]

It's not so much bravery as necessity I think guys!

Cheers for all the encouragement, I've emailed Tripe for some prices and anything he can't get I will have to visit the Porsche place at Cribs Causeway later this week.

 

All your photos at least give me some hope. I have quite a decent amount of tools now so that at least wont be an additional expense although the temptation to buy a better welder is quite high.

 

It didn't feel like my sealant was soggy, I think it just holds water because of the shape holding onto kilos of mud and salt. I wonder what starts the whole lot peeling off though, it's rather odd to my mind, if the coating is good, just having mud and salt on it would not cause perforation. I think it will remain ever a mystery.

 

I am damn sure I will be giving it a regular hosing in the future now! I think a pressure washer could be a bad idea, especially on cars where the coating has not been recently reapplied as it could start to peel it off and let crap get underneath it. Just brush it out well and hose it lightly would be my recommendation to anyone reading this, then once it's dried Dinitrol it to death!