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jevvy

The 3.6 Engine Conversion Banter Thread

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If there's not a ECU under the front seat in an SC, like in a 3.2, is it just the wiring loom in the engine bay?

Thinking about it - the modern engine must have an ECU so where does that end up?

 

You can put the new loom and ecu wherever you want, just need to make sure one end of it is near the engine bay and the other end is somewhere clean and safe to put the ecu. (normally under the seat)

 

The adapter loom that you either buy or make interfaces between the 3.6 loom and your sc chassis.

 

With ssi's you are half way done on the oil pipe front - just a small extension needed for the other oil line and you are all sorted.

 

As for finding an engine you just need to get the saved searches sorted on ebay and act quickly with cash when a good one turns up.

 

What about that 40k miler? You tried to strike a deal with them yet?

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If there's not a ECU under the front seat in an SC, like in a 3.2, is it just the wiring loom in the engine bay?

 

The new 3.6 ECU goes under the nearside front seat and the 3.6 ECU to engine loom runs from there, through a new hole, to the engine. On a 3.2 the original ECU to engine harness is no longer needed.

 

There is a different conversion "harness" for a 3.2 and earlier engines and the connections to this are made in different places. On a 3.2 they are mainly under the seat were the wires are already, on earlier cars the connections are made in the front boot area and engine bay.

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pop round Jev's house and have a dig about down the back of his sofa or...

 

the usual places, Pistonheads, Ebay and ask buyers on selling multiple 964/993 parts as they may have an engine they haven't listed yet , wanted ads on here, Rennlist, 911 UK, Google search,

 

look morning, noon and night, the more you look the luckier you'll be and get ready to pounce with cash, don't wait for an auction to end

Edited by World Citizen

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What about that 40k miler? You tried to strike a deal with them yet?

Contacted him about another engine and there simply weren't deals to be done. Have 't chased this engine as much as I could have after that. Worth another go :)

 

There is a different conversion "harness" for a 3.2 and earlier engines and the connections to this are made in different places.

Makes sense! Thanks

 

the usual places, Pistonheads, Ebay and ask buyers on selling multiple 964/993 parts as they may have an engine they haven't listed yet , wanted ads on here, Rennlist, 911 UK, Google search,

 

look morning, noon and night, the more you look the luckier you'll be and get ready to pounce with cash, don't wait for an auction to end

Have lots of 'saved searches' set up and online searching too often!

Hadn't thought about wanted ads - good idea. I'd missed 911UK, so thanks for that :)

Edited by BenC

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can I get a bit more input on braking upgrades to go along with this please as this is another cost to go along with the package.

 

I think Tripe went to Turbo brakes

Alex went to 964 calipers

 

I've seen a pair of rear 964 calipers on ebay (item #160939112240) and I've contacted the seller but they don't have a matching pair of fronts sadly as to me it makes sense to go 964 brakes to match the engine.

also presuming you'd need a bigger master cylinder (which I think Jev installed to avoid the longer pedal travel that you have without) and probably new brake lines

 

I feel like I've got to up the stopping power from the SC set up and this car is track focused as it's priority.

 

thoughts......

 

 

thanks :)

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I went 964's all round with turbo rear discs and willwood fronts mainly because I got a kit at a sensible price but it still required quite a bit of faff-on. Dont think I'd stay Porsche stuff if I was doing it again. The 964 fronts and 3.2 rears seem to be a nice sweet-spot if you want to stay with porsche stuff, RB has this on his along with some fandango rears now :)

 

Assume 2nd hand calipers will need a rebuild and the rebuild kits for porka callipers can get scary quickly, only buy ones you can see in the flesh would be my advice.

 

Haway mate stick with the skinny brakes for now and learn how to dive around it,big brakes = more weight :)

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can I get a bit more input on braking upgrades to go along with this please as this is another cost to go along with the package.

 

I think Tripe went to Turbo brakes

Alex went to 964 calipers

 

I feel like I've got to up the stopping power from the SC set up and this car is track focused as it's priority.

 

thoughts......

 

I never went to 964 calipers in the end as my car was off the road for long enough and I just wanted it back so I sold them to a local guy who did a really nice job of refurbing them and put them on his 964.

 

With your car weighing less than 1000kg it is the equivolent of a brake upgrade anyway so I'd probably see how it goes and tackle one project at a time to minimise the downtime.

 

One thing that would be useful to know is a direct comparison of your cars wet weight with the 3.0 and then the 3.6. I'd be happy to come along as well as I'd be interested to see how much my lardy rustbucket weighs.

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Haway mate stick with the skinny brakes for now and learn how to dive around it,big brakes = more weight :)

 

 

With your car weighing less than 1000kg it is the equivolent of a brake upgrade anyway so I'd probably see how it goes and tackle one project at a time to minimise the downtime.

 

One thing that would be useful to know is a direct comparison of your cars wet weight with the 3.0 and then the 3.6. I'd be happy to come along as well as I'd be interested to see how much my lardy rustbucket weighs.

I was thinking the same thing, as long as I drive according to my braking potential rather than my speed should be ok in the short term - although I have heard of insurance companies wanting to know what the brakes upgrade is before they cover you.

 

Alex - the weigh bridge I use it the county one up in Booker / High Wycombe - best times are first thing in the morning on a week day when there is no one else around. I usually aim half term!

 

not sure if a complete back to back comparison will be possible as I've added a knee bar and FIA padding to the cage since the last weigh in, but will do my best :)

Edited by BenC

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Rear engine hanger options for a 993 conversion.

 

If you go with a single drive crank pulley for the fan and alternator (not a recommended option on a 964 as the pulley has a built in harmonic balancer due to a different crank), you have the option of using an early engine hanger and bracket.

 

A '74 bracket and hanger weighing 3.4Kg (top) and a 993 factory A/C delete bracket and hanger weighing 4.0Kg.

 

993earlymount.jpg

 

The 993 hanger has to have the ends bent forward 35.6mm and while no one has reported issues I am not so comfortable with this without any reinforcement. In its standard configuration the forces are mainly in one plain, with the ends bent forward you will introduce a twisting force.

 

bend.jpg

 

The factory reinforced the 993 type of bar on some of the race cars (and RS?), as they encountered failures when used with solid mounts. Aftermarket weld on reinforcing kits are also sold.

IMG_1965.jpg

M041325887543_zps07d611f6.jpg

The earlier bracket bolts up to the 3.6 engine case OK and the hanger lines up with the mounts as intended and there is room to fit an air feed for heat, it is also a bit lighter.

IMAG0449_zps1f5250ff.jpg

IMAG0448_zps824ab74f.jpg

The weak point on these bars seems to be at the ends where the tube for the mounting bolt is welded on and so some reinforcement in this area is a good idea.

Upgraded hangers, both RSR replicas and others are available, but I think I will try some DIY like below.

M01-RS-1_zps300be553.jpg

As another point of reference, the 993 Turbo used a hanger of similar design to the early one, with some reinforcement at the ends.

993turbomount_zps0bf23582.jpg

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Interesting stuff Mark, so do you not have to bend the carrier at all when using the earlier type then?

 

I ended up putting a plate quite a lot further along than the 993 turbo one but it is the narrowest point that clearly needs reinforcing most.

 

http://www.impactbumpers.com/forum/index.php?/topic/13338-alexs-36-engine-transplant/?p=192913

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so do you not have to bend the carrier at all when using the earlier type then?

 

No, fits as is.

 

Mark

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Few more questions:

When you replace an engine what do you do about the speedo mileage?

Cone air filter - do you have to have one on the end of a 90* bend or can you just bolt it on to replace the original air box?

engine mounts - do you use the original style ones for the engine and bolt up through the mount locations already in the car?

I've read about needing to drop the motor by about 25mm, but I've got no sound pads at all in the engine bay which should claim back a few more mm headroom.

Thanks

:)

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You don't really do anything about speedo mileage, the car has still done the miles shown. Just record the mileage when you do the swap.

 

The cone filter can be mounted in either orientation. For reference mine came straight out of the AFM, Kroggers is at 90 deg.

 

As you've got access to a lathe maybe it's worth it's worth knocking up 4 x 1/2" thick spacers and having a play around with the height.

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thanks Alex :)

As you've got access to a lathe maybe it's worth it's worth knocking up 4 x 1/2" thick spacers and having a play around with the height.

 

are those spacers in addition to the original engine mounts? or instead of?

 

I don't have any for the new engine - but they are super expensive for what they are aren't they!

http://www.type911shop.co.uk/shop/article_4698/964-C2-Engine-Mount-Right.html?sessid=r5hkcXnXJgJiKU3e7f5ePTTmivl8IzoTaVemFcZOsQJf1Aln0KcJwEgvVw41ZfdD&shop_param=cid%3D1249%26aid%3D4698%26

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thanks Alex :)

 

are those spacers in addition to the original engine mounts? or instead of?

 

I don't have any for the new engine - but they are super expensive for what they are aren't they!

http://www.type911shop.co.uk/shop/article_4698/964-C2-Engine-Mount-Right.html?sessid=r5hkcXnXJgJiKU3e7f5ePTTmivl8IzoTaVemFcZOsQJf1Aln0KcJwEgvVw41ZfdD&shop_param=cid%3D1249%26aid%3D4698%26

 

you use IB engine mounts with longer bolts and nuts on the bottom. Dont frett about the spacers too much - ive got a selection kicking about you can use until you know what you need then you can make/buy some yourself.

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you use IB engine mounts with longer bolts and nuts on the bottom. Dont frett about the spacers too much - ive got a selection kicking about you can use until you know what you need then you can make/buy some yourself.

thanks mate

that's a relief - was further £350 I hadn't considered!

:)

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Alternative route into a 3.6 IB:

 

This + This (or THIS)

 

Ask them to temporarily fit the engine into the car and post it all over for $1250. If its rust free as they claim then could be onto a winner but looks like you would need a box and some wheels, seats and trim which I'm sure they could help you out with :) Get a conversion kit and flywheel shipped with it to save more tax and shipping on the overall job.

 

Stutts must be the man for this one - he likes a bit of red!

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Picked up my 964 C2 from SVP yesterday, big thanks to Dom and his guys for putting up with my unique build spec. Lets just say it turns heads and creates smiles like no other car I've ever owned.

 

First impressions are the 3.6 engine pulls like a train, acceleration is almost linear right up through the revs. and the torque creates one big endless surge of acceleration. Power delivery is a different world compared to my 930, no need to think 3 secs ahead of yourself when stabbing at the throttle pedal making it a much more relaxing driving experience.

 

If anyone is considering a 3.6 conversion then I can now safely say with 200 miles of experience under my belt you will not be disappointed. Fitting this engine into a 1000kg ish IB would make one hell of a track day or road car weapon.

 

Thanks again Jev

Edited by World Citizen

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A box of conversion parts should arrive from UK Customs tomorrow morning - can't wait to get cracking with it :)

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Where did you order the parts? I did order my conversion parts from Dr. Timmins. Apart of the throttle cable everything was just fine.

 

Here is some pics of my project if you are interested:

http://s216.beta.photobucket.com/user/jaskas2/library/Mottiproggis

20130128_195715.jpg

 

A second cooler is a must. Pics:

http://s216.beta.photobucket.com/user/jaskas2/library/Ropausta%202012

 

Then you need to have bigger brakes and refurb the suspension:

12022011080.jpg

 

Here is the dynosession for MegaSquirt ECU tuning: (few added hp + Nm + a lot better throttle response )

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