The 3.6 Engine Conversion Banter Thread

[BenC]

Hey Henry,

My 964 engine went into a '79 SC and I think you do need to change the oil sender.

I haven't changed mine, but I need to.

[Henry]

Thats a pita ! I have been searching Pelican but can't find the answer, just know you have to match with guages . Did you reconnect yours and no reading on guage or as I read somewhere you get a reading twice what it should be . Not ideal for nerves when firing up a new engine . Thanks for the quick reply btw

Edited April 8, 2016 by Henry

[BenC]

Just left mine connected - always reads full to the max

[Henry]

Ok cheers Ben , hopefully someone will chime in with some more info , I did buy a new sender for my old engine but its only single pole so will have a spare wire , thinking the 964 one does warning switch and pressure maybe . Hopefully search will turn something up.

Edited April 8, 2016 by Henry

[BenC]

Hopefully Jev or Alex will chime in.

[SilverWT]

This is from the Instant-G info...

 

 

Mark

[Henry]

Thanks for that Mark , need to have another look in the morning , I see that info relates to the temp sender , mine being silver so currently wrong if understanding it correctly . I have my old SC motor at hand so not ideal but may be able to rob one from it perhaps if its the same thread . My pressure sender currently is a new two pole 5 bar item . So wondering if its correct .

 

Thanks H

[ALEX P]

Mine was the brass numeric type, you can see it in the bottom left of the photo.

 

I didn't have to do anything other than wire it up and it's all good.

 

What have you got Henry?

 

[Henry]

Ages ago I bought a new one the same as the one already fitted to the transplant engine just thinking wise to replace not thinking about it working with my gauges , the pressure sender on mine is brass colour and says 5 bar looks like,e yours tbh. Thanks Alex

[SilverWT]

the pressure sender on mine is brass colour and says 5 bar looks like,e yours tbh.

Remember, Alex's is a later car and as I understand it 1980 was the point the gauge changed to one that worked OK with a std 3.6 sender. I think you need to check what gauge you have in your car as well as the type of sender on the old engine.

 

Mark

[Henry]

Remember, Alex's is a later car and as I understand it 1980 was the point the gauge changed to one that worked OK with a std 3.6 sender. I think you need to check what gauge you have in your car as well as the type of sender on the old engine.

 

Mark

Cheers Mark , will look into it again later today if I get time , car is at my brothers at the moment 4 miles away as he got a ramp and fancy workshop which makes things easier . I have taken my old engine senders out and will compare to the new ones , trouble is the old pressure sender has been well spannered in the past and info on the nut has been mashed a little I think it says 5 bar but hard to tell . .

I left the engine out this morning and worked on the throttle cable instead hoping to do more research later . Will take a look at the back of the clocks to . Thanks H

[T6bhs]

Hi Guys, I’m joining the club (couldn’t resist after reading all the conversion threads) I have just bought a 3.6 varioram for my backdate/hotrod build and am looking at getting the various conversion parts, was wondering what the general opinion is now on the best place to get them from?

Edited June 23, 2018 by T6bhs
Typo

[Kenny Senior]

I got mine from Steve Timmins (Instant G). The quality of some of the bits was a little lacklustre and a lot of stuff needed a fair bit of fettling to get right. I couldn't say for definite whether Patrick Motorsports is any better, but it looks like it might be. More expensive though. 

I can confirm that once fitted and running right it really does make a huge difference. It's a fast car now, even by today's standards with 350bhp 4WD hatchbacks at every set of traffic lights.

[T6bhs]

Thanks, that’s the feeling I was getting from reading some of the threads, but most do seem to use instant g.

I have had quotes from both and Instant g’s seemed more comprehensive they are in the same ballpark price wise.

My engine didn’t come with the vacuum reservoir and I see instant g plan to provide 2 of the smaller units instead of the egg box version normally used with varioram, is this what everyone else is using?

Also kenny, did you end up needing spacers (on engine mounts) to make it fit? couldn’t see it mentioned later in your conversion thread.

[Kenny Senior]

I used the two domed reservoirs Steve T provided. They mount under the varioram intake at the flywheel end of the engine into a threaded hole in the case that was covered by my shroud. There was a small round pop out in the shroud to get to the threaded hole. I think it was originally used for a cruise control bracket but the donor car for mine must not have had that option ticked. It's a neater way to do it rather than having to find somewhere for an egg box to live, but they're a royal pain to get to if there's a problem.

I couldn't figure out what was supposed to activate the solenoid(s) for the vacuum from intake to reservoir (the ones in the shiny bracket on the side) so I got rid and fitted a simple non-return valve from the tapping at the back of the intake into both reservoirs. I then piped one of the reservoirs to the solenoid for the varioram actuators and the other to solenoid to the resonator.

Steve advises using the 993 bar, putting bends in it as it sits too far back for an IB, and also cutting off the aluminium air con compressor plinth. As I had a hanger available from my old SC engine we unbolted and removed the entire casting for the plinth altogether. This casting also acts as a stand off for the 993 engine bar and allows room for the triple crank pulley compared to an SC's single pulley. Because of this I had to find a 993RS crank pulley. Porsche want >£500 for a new one which is bonkers as it's just pressed steel. I got lucky and found a NOS one for £200. Using the old bar seemed a much better solution to me. I didn't fancy the entire weight of the engine sitting on a bent and welded hanger.

When the engine was first thrown in we did use the spacers provided, however, on my car they were far deeper than they needed to be. That may be down to the different solution to the engine hanger, but I don't know for sure. In the end we used a couple of big washers each side. The idle control valve is up against the engine sound pad, but if ever I need to clean it I'll just drop the back of the engine a smidge to get to it. I could probably have got away without using them at all, but I wanted a little room for the engine to move about on it's mounts. That said I'll probably swap all four of my mounts for more solid versions at some point as I can feel the drivetrain rocking more than I like due to the much increased torque. 

Other things I wish I'd known before starting include;

Extra cooler. I used the one Steve provides which mounts in the nearside front wing. This means that you have to do away with the big washer fluid reservoir and also the charcoal canister. I do now get a whiff of fuel when the tank is anything over a quarter full and I drive spiritedly around a roundabout or righthand bend. I wish I'd found a different solution to this, be it a front mounted cooler or whatever. Not least because now I have nowhere to fit the cooler for Jonny's electric AC which I still fancy if ever I can afford it.

The throttle cable kit needed a fair bit of tinkering to get right. The bracket was a bit crap and didn't give the correct angle to operate the bellhousing crank. I also fitted an extra helper spring here as the pedal felt light and I don't think the 993 spring alone was returning the pedal properly. I'd advise fitting a helper to the throttle bracket at the back of the engine while it's out.

Exhaust. This proved a far bigger headache than I thought. My advice would be to either make a Happy Crab yourself (I refused to pay Steve $1600 for $400 worth of bits of stainless) or go to someone like Turbo Thomas and get them to fab up a silencer specifically to suit. Mine is a combination of Bischoff flanges cut off some cat delete pipes welded into my Eisenmann two-in exhaust. It actually sounds awesome (genuinely, I was surprised at how good the noise is), but it's a less than ideal solution given the radii required on the short lengths from exchanger to silencer and something I may need to look into in the future. DO NOT buy the SSI conversion heat exchangers. They use 35mm I.D. primaries the same as the set they make for a 2.0l car. Simply not big enough and will strangle the engine.

Do fit a decent sized heatsink to the ignition amplifier that sits next to the ECU. If you don't you will be stranded and when you fiddle around under the passenger seat to see if something has come loose you will lose a lot of skin from your fingers. These things can get soldering iron hot.

There's loads more, I'm sure. If you come up against a snag then just ask. I think I hit every one possible.

 

 

[T6bhs]

That’s brilliant thanks for all the info, you touched on pretty much every question I have going round my head at the moment.

I need to look into the exhaust a lot more, I don’t want it restrictive but also don’t want to mickey off the neighbours etc.

My cars already getting a front/Center cooler (RSR backdate) and I may also keep the 3.2 cooler (although originally I was going to remove that one)

Great to know it fits nicely for you, I don’t like the thought of large spacers really.

First job for today is getting the engine out the disco.

[Henry]

Throttle wise , I would use the 993 cable or is it the 964 one cant quite remember, ala Jev .

Standard cable modded slightly , direct linkfrom pedal to butterfly nice and direct no linkage probs . The crab is noisey ! But it does sound great, loads of pops and bangs on over run  ☺

[Kenny Senior]

Definitely keep your original cooler in addition to the new one. 

The 993 engine doesn't have a cooler mounted to it like IBs. It relies entirely upon the front cooler(s).

[T6bhs]

Oh the popping/bangs sounds good. Tempting me.

Yeah no harm in extra cooling.

I am leaning towards impact-g simply because I can order all parts on one go easier it seems. Still researching though.

[Leicestershire]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Porsche-911-964-Carrera-Engine-M64-01/123209975425?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

Any thoughts on this?

Bit of a gamble - could all be scrap but if the cases, crank and rods were good I has all the bits needed for a good hot-rod build.

[T6bhs]

I looked at this, before I found my engine. Like you say it’s a bit of a gamble.

For me it wasn’t worth it as the extra parts to build it up would probably get it to the cost of a known running engine. But if you have the bits it could work out great.

[mean in green]

The ad doesn't read too well does it - as if not really knowing much about it or selling on someone else's behalf?

[Leicestershire]

24 minutes ago, mean in green said:

The ad doesn't read too well does it - as if not really knowing much about it or selling on someone else's behalf?

Or perhaps knowing too much??

I think I will wait and see what comes along. At £2.5K could make my man maths work a little better.

[mean in green]

21 minutes ago, Leicestershire said:

Or perhaps knowing too much??

Quite possibly!

[SilverWT]

Someone asked on another thread what the current going rate for a 3.6 is, well this dishevelled 964 lump was on the shelf at BS Motorsports on Saturday...

Guess how much...

Hmm 

Mark