Busybee Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 🙄 The response is disproportionate and misguided. We should doubly look after those that are vulnerable and spend our money there. Not close down society in general to stop the likes of you and me getting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njpcarrera32 Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 The number of people dying in Italy because of covid-19 means that 20% more people are dying in Italy every day than would normally be the case, and the death rate from covid-19 is increasing. The best thing we can all do is to stay within our homes and only go out if absolutely necessary i.e for for food for at least the next 12 weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sopor Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 8 minutes ago, Busybee said: 🙄 The response is disproportionate and misguided. We should doubly look after those that are vulnerable and spend our money there. Not close down society in general to stop the likes of you and me getting it. Expand on this please with specifics. Throwing rocks at the current approach is easy - articulate a better plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busybee Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 7 minutes ago, sopor said: Expand on this please with specifics. Throwing rocks at the current approach is easy - articulate a better plan. We already seem to have a model. China. With a little more compassion. Support for the elderly and vulnerable within their homes. Grocery deliveries free of charge. Sanitisers, vitamin supplements.They are the ones that need protecting. Not 35 year old Brenda working in John Lewis who will now go home and get 80% of her salary funded from the public purse for the next x weeks. The current response is aimed at giving the most to those that need it least! We should be pushing the most to those that are likely to suffer the most serious consequences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryH Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Busybee said: 🙄 The response is disproportionate and misguided. We should doubly look after those that are vulnerable and spend our money there. Not close down society in general to stop the likes of you and me getting it. And going to fail all the time there are 'doesn't affect me so I'll just carry on as normal' attitudes like this ^^^^^ 🙄 Edited March 22, 2020 by GaryH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busybee Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 Just now, GaryH said: And going to fail all the time there are 'doesn't affect me so I'll just carry on as normal' attitudes like this ^^^^^ 🙄 You’re unfortunately, missing the point. Grab a cuppa and go back a few posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryH Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 1 hour ago, topcarrera said: For once I agree with you Gary! That's actually twice in one thread TC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryH Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 1 minute ago, Busybee said: You’re unfortunately, missing the point. Grab a cuppa and go back a few posts. Oh I don't think comprehension is my problem. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised, this was the supermarket beer aisle.. ...all gone, except for, yes you guessed it.... 😒 - FFS 8 hours ago, Busybee said: Is that more draconian than what’s happening? Really! ? is that a serious question ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busybee Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 🙄 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryH Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 Interesting to note that Boris Johnson thought the real hero in the film "Jaws" was the local major who kept the beaches open (whilst people continued to get eaten by the shark) in order to protect local commerce ! 😮 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northy Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 (edited) I don’t really want to contribute to this trash fire of a thread. But if you’ve listened to any of the interviews with front line doctors it’s pretty terrifying. Yes the older more vulnerable are dying, but there are 30-40 year olds that are requiring ventilation for weeks at a time, will likely need to be in hospitalised for a while and require medication for a year afterwards. There is more to it than the headline death numbers. Yes there is some sensationalisation going on, but it’s being taken this seriously for a reason. The Italian doctors being interviewed are trying to warn us of what’s coming. Next week is going to be very telling on how this pans out. Edited March 22, 2020 by Northy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sopor Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 I think you’re missing a major point. It’s not just about the mortality of CV. It’s the load it places on the health service. Just because you and I might well not die of the disease doesn’t mean we won’t spend time in hospital on a respirator. Or consume other NHS resources. One statistic I saw stated that the median hospital stay for patients that survive is 10 days. What tiny fraction of the general non-vulnerable population needs to spend 10 days in hospital before the beds are full? There are also concerns of long term lung damage. If you look at the current statistics for western nations the percentage of people deemed recovered is quite low - presumably they’re still using up health resources in varying degrees? So keeping Brenda from getting ill in the first place might be a good idea? Or, should Brenda get ill this week, hopefully her sister Sarah won’t get ill in the same week too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryH Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 The government would consider an Italian-style lockdown if people fail to follow advice to stay at home during the coronavirus crisis, a senior minister has said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busybee Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 Not sure if you’re shouting or you think cv has debilitated my eyes Felix Lol. Hospitals are always at capacity or near to it. That’s their natural state of being or we waste money in the system every day. 10 additional cases requiring ventilation is above natural capacity. Any out of the ordinary influence tips them over. It usually happens every year at this time because the elderly become ill with flu. I agree that this will need more resources than normal but I don’t agree the response being offered fits the threat. You’re a numbers man. Take a look at the stats you found. Over 90% of cases suffer mild to moderate symptoms requiring nothing more than a stay at home. Very few people outside of the vulnerable brackets require intervention. Even then it’s usually because they have an underlying illness. You can’t ignore the science and give in to the media hype. Protect the vulnerable and throw as much resource as we can to them. Brenda will be fine with chicken soup. 90% of the time! I’m just watching with interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryH Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 The government would consider an Italian-style lockdown if people fail to follow advice to stay at home during the coronavirus crisis, a senior minister has said. "We want to continue in a free society. But this isn’t a game, people need to follow the advice" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryH Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Busybee said: You’re a numbers man. Take a look at the stats you found. Over 90% of cases suffer mild to moderate symptoms requiring nothing more than a stay at home. So, pop quiz. What's 10% of 49 million people (that would need hospital treatment) ? Or even 2% ? See the problem now ? Edited March 22, 2020 by GaryH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sopor Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 Sorry for the earlier large font. Cut and paste error on my part and the edit window for posts on this site is short. 10% of 4.9M is bad enough. Even 10% of 0.49M will cause problems. The UK has some 170K hospital beds in total. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 I 22 minutes ago, GaryH said: The government would consider an Italian-style lockdown if people fail to follow advice to stay at home during the coronavirus crisis, a senior minister has said. I think that they can proceed with full lockdown in that case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sopor Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 And you're right; I am a numbers man. The perils of a maths degree. When I see the numbers/graphs in these pages: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/spain/ https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/italy/ I get to thinking there's little reason the UK won't soon be on a similar trajectory. Why should we be any different? All indications are that even with a draconian lock-down cases will continue to climb for some time since the incubation period is so long. I'm surprised that you're coming to a conclusion about the rights and wrongs of the government's approach so early. This thing has quite some way to run yet me thinks. There's no vaccine on the horizon and there's not enough empirical evidence that once you've had it you'll never get it again. It's in the wild and it's not going away. At the moment it's looking far too much like a perpetual game of Whac-a-Mole with rather higher stakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverWT Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 Guys, don't lose sight of the fact this is a car forum, all your points/discussions/recriminations make no material difference to anything except the level of depression. IMHO, on this forum it is better to talk about positive IB things we can do without any potential risk to others Social distancing IB style... Isolated drive, with a quick photo stop I guessed would have more than adequate opportunity for effective social distancing. Keep well, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryH Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 Girlfriends sister and her husband stopped by gendarmes whilst going out in France to buy food and told that only one of them is supposed to be outside at a time. 51 minutes ago, sopor said: And you're right; I am a numbers man. The perils of a maths degree. When I see the numbers/graphs in these pages: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/spain/ https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/italy/ I get to thinking there's little reason the UK won't soon be on a similar trajectory. Why should we be any different? All indications are that even with a draconian lock-down cases will continue to climb for some time since the incubation period is so long. I'm surprised that you're coming to a conclusion about the rights and wrongs of the government's approach so early. This thing has quite some way to run yet me thinks. There's no vaccine on the horizon and there's not enough empirical evidence that once you've had it you'll never get it again. It's in the wild and it's not going away. At the moment it's looking far too much like a perpetual game of Whac-a-Mole with rather higher stakes. All of this ^^^^^ 👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sopor Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 15 minutes ago, SilverWT said: Guys, don't lose sight of the fact this is a car forum, all your points/discussions/recriminations make no material difference to anything except the level of depression. IMHO, on this forum it is better to talk about positive IB things we can do without any potential risk to others Social distancing IB style... Typical Porsche driver - taking up two spaces! 😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Rock Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 It's lovely day - go outside and get some Vitamin D! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ras62 Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 A study into flu victims in Italy. Quite an eye opener. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1201971219303285 Italy has the oldest population in Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busybee Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 I agree chaps. Vitamin D was great! Superb drive of around 40miles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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